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Thread: INFP - ISFP

  1. #21
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    Iz funny, because I know exactly what Mal means by "mama bear."

    ExFJ may encompass this 24/7, rushing around, doing things...but IxFP will step up and cut you if you fuck with who they love.

  2. #22
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Maybe physically volatile, but not necessarily. Although Se is about being more aware of it's immediate tactics and pleasures and sensations and options and what works and some might be more inclined to impose a physical/direct solution to their problems. For some, that could be a tool they've seen work and gotten used to.

    Not to say Ne is inept in it's directness or mobility, but I think they might try to create more imaginative solutions to problems, or even ignoring a lot of what "Se" even tells them to do in all kinds of life situations. They'd be idealistic and "bigger picture" oriented, and that would shape how they approach things over time. Every experience and piece of information shapes who we are, and in their case, they'd be set on "bigger picture" assessments, and seeing how some problems can't be worked out simply. And so they use Ne to offer others something previously ignored or unseen. Some might be even more docile than ISFPs, I think.. if they took the idealism too far. There are INFPs out there who are always trying to see the good in others and wouldn't fight. Simply because they imagine some good angle in them (not to say they're incorrect though). An ISFP, on the other hand, might think they need a dose of reality.
    to the bold, but I don't think we're less docile on the whole.
    I'd say that imagining good in someone opens up the idea that they can be reasoned with or that they are able to accept some responsibility & admit wrong (because they have a conscience still). It's this idea, in my case, that pushes me into conflict.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Personality Page isn't the definitive source of information on INFPs vs. ISFPs, because ISFP outbursts of anger is actually quite a well-known concept, and the neurological study that Seymour posted indicated that ISFPs are actually more likely than INFPs to immediately take action or defend their viewpoint.
    This is a Se/Ne difference which has nothing to do with ability or tendency to assert & defend oneself.

    The INFP, using Ne, obviously spends more time analyzing before taking action. They may also listen & observe longer, which allows them to grasp the other person's psychology, which obviously helps with "strategy" in conflict.

    I'd say that the INFP may have a more well-though out, harder to argue with approach when they finally do take action. I tend to argue with myself internally, patch all the weak spots, and then approach the conflict with a "if they say this, then move here" mental chart.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nardi excerpt
    Se: Act quickly and smoothly to handle whatever comes up in the moment.
    Ne: Perceive and play with patterns of relationships across contexts.

    INFPs can deeply listen for up to 10 minutes at a time, ISFPs listen briefly and then move to action.

    INFPs may get to the core of a person's psychology by listening for so long. INFPs are less likely to defend their own views or take action, though when they stop listening, region Fp1 becomes very active as they make a strong (and perhaps final) decision.
    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Family commitments typically come first for the ISFP (I'm only considering the parents here). Once I read a description of the issues a family was having with their INFP mother, because she didn't commit enough time to her family. At best, one could call this a "relaxed" attitude toward home commitments, and that's not so bad. But an over-concern with broad humanitarian interests which plague their powerful consciences can cause this relaxed attitude toward family to become too removed, and the family begins to feel that their problems are being ignored or brushed over, for example, if mom or dad (especially mom) are often out fighting for the "good of society," attending meetings, political fund-raisers, etc.

    That's not to say ISFPs don't have a problem with making commitments to home. But you won't catch them out playing politics, rather, neglectfully out enjoying themselves. And that doesn't take care of their own real needs either (which are typically emotional and self-esteem issues), it's only an escape from dealing with them. At a deeper level, one could say that the overly-humanitarian INFP who is out campaigning for the public good all the time, while neglecting the family at home, is also using exciting social concerns as an escape from the day-to-day drudgery of the Sensory home life.
    It's funny because I criticize my ISFP step-dad for doing what you say ISFPs DON'T do. He's Mr. Nice & Caring with people from church, making sacrifices to help other people, but a selfish jerk at home with his family.

    I don't know if this is function-related at all. I've seen many people of many types have this imbalance in their life, whether it's work/family or humanitarian work/family, etc.
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  3. #23
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    It's funny because I criticize my ISFP step-dad for doing what you say ISFPs DON'T do. He's Mr. Nice & Caring with people from church, making sacrifices to help other people, but a selfish jerk at home with his family.

    I don't know if this is function-related at all. I've seen many people of many types have this imbalance in their life, whether it's work/family or humanitarian work/family, etc.
    I'll never claim that such and such individual does or doesn't do X based on type. I didn't say the INFP mother in my example was being a jerk to anybody either, but who knows what that means. "Jerk" is very non-specific, whereas I specifically said the INFP mother was neglecting her family in favor of pursuing social causes.

    But the imbalance you're talking about is best described by the ANSIR typology with its distinction between working (how people are at work), emoting (how people are in personal relationships), and thinking styles. Most typologies describe people how they are MOST of the time. The ANSIR describes how people are here versus there.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #24
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    to the bold, but I don't think we're less docile on the whole.
    I'd say that imagining good in someone opens up the idea that they can be reasoned with or that they are able to accept some responsibility & admit wrong (because they have a conscience still). It's this idea, in my case, that pushes me into conflict.
    Yeah, docile is not the right word. Maybe just relatively, I think. Or rather, unusually diplomatic.

    I know not everyone likes fictional examples, but Luke Skywalker is often mentioned as an INFP archetype. There's a reason for that. And it's not because he's a do gooder per se. Or that he's a hero. There are many types like that. The difference with Skywalker is he stretches the limit on who or what can be redeemable, and sees good in Darth Vader. You could say that he only goes into "mama bear" mode on a higher level than others. Perhaps an ISFP would do it sooner, by virtue of a worldview shaped by more.. immediacy or whatnot. They draw more lines. And not all would be about fun or selfish. They could be noble as well. It'd just be more understandable. Skywalker, otoh, really isn't that understandable.. if he was a real person. The ISFP would still consider Vader a douche.

  5. #25
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Yeah, docile is not the right word. Maybe just relatively, I think. Or rather, unusually diplomatic.

    I know not everyone likes fictional examples, but Luke Skywalker is often mentioned as an INFP archetype. There's a reason for that. And it's not because he's a do gooder per se. Or that he's a hero. There are many types like that. The difference with Skywalker is he stretches the limit on who or what can be redeemable, and sees good in Darth Vader. You could say that he only goes into "mama bear" mode on a higher level than others. Perhaps an ISFP would do it sooner, by virtue of a worldview shaped by more.. immediacy or whatnot. They draw more lines. And not all would be about fun or selfish. They could be noble as well. It'd just be more understandable. Skywalker, otoh, really isn't that understandable.. if he was a real person. The ISFP would still consider Vader a douche.
    I've never seen Star Wars, so I really don't know.... There's something about this that rings of enneagram 9 though. EDIT: The thing is, enneagram 9 ISFPs will appear somewhat docile also, probably more so than an e4 INFP.

    I think you & marm are enneagram 6 types - reactive types. 4s are withdrawing but moody & hypersensitive & needing to stand out, & they find it hard to detach emotionally, so they'll enter into conflict more easily than 9s. 9s are the IFPs who are the most withdrawing from conflict, IMO, the most eager to keep peace at any price &/or most likely to just dismiss conflict internally.

    Some misidentification points with 4s & 9s:
    Fours like to bring attention to themselves unlike nines. Fours unlike nines are comfortable taking the initiative to make themselves heard. Fours use separation to proudly affirm how different they are while nines fear being separated from others.

    6s & 9s:
    Nines see sixes as too wound up, needing to chill out while sixes see nines as asleep. Effective communication isn't as important to nines as it is to sixes who need things to be spelled out. Nines are comfortable letting things happen on their own while sixes notice what can go wrong. Sixes, being reactive types, find it much harder to shield their annoyance from others. When nines feel their internal resources cannot deal with a situation, they get to a "what's the point anymore?" paralysis.
    Last edited by OrangeAppled; 09-19-2011 at 05:36 PM. Reason: I didn't finish a sentence, haha!
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  6. #26
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I've never seen Star Wars, so I really don't know....
    Lol... freak.


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post

    6s & 9s:
    Nines see sixes as too wound up, needing to chill out while sixes see nines as asleep. Effective communication isn't as important to nines as it is to sixes who need things to be spelled out. Nines are comfortable letting things happen on their own while sixes notice what can go wrong. Sixes, being reactive types, find it much harder to shield their annoyance from others. When nines feel their internal resources cannot deal with a situation, they get to a "what's the point anymore?" paralysis.
    Yes, I agree with all of this. I think that sometimes 9s look at my reactivity and are like "why? this is unnecessary!" and sometimes I look at them and think "you really should DO or SAY something, how can you not?!!!"

    6s integrate at 9 though, which means that 6s do need to learn to chill out a bit to balance. Which is what I'm trying to learn...it's so funny to me that IRL though I can allow people to say really dumb or mildly offensive stuff and not even blink, and think "it's just better to not say anything" but when I'm on-line I will battle people to the death...I do battle people IRL, but IRL I think I pick my battles better. Which is why people are so often surprised that I go from quiet and easy-going to suddenly creating EXTREMELY FIRM BOUNDARIES...because it's relatively rare, not an every day occurrence.

    I could see KDude as a 6 as well.

  8. #28
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Yeah, docile is not the right word. Maybe just relatively, I think. Or rather, unusually diplomatic.

    I know not everyone likes fictional examples, but Luke Skywalker is often mentioned as an INFP archetype. There's a reason for that. And it's not because he's a do gooder per se. Or that he's a hero. There are many types like that. The difference with Skywalker is he stretches the limit on who or what can be redeemable, and sees good in Darth Vader. You could say that he only goes into "mama bear" mode on a higher level than others. Perhaps an ISFP would do it sooner, by virtue of a worldview shaped by more.. immediacy or whatnot. They draw more lines. And not all would be about fun or selfish. They could be noble as well. It'd just be more understandable. Skywalker, otoh, really isn't that understandable.. if he was a real person. The ISFP would still consider Vader a douche.
    Luke Skywalker was an archetypal hero character. This is easy to discern because he never had a moment's doubt about his value-system. And his primary concerns lie in the immediate moment. He had his mind made up from the moment he found his adoptive parents were killed, although he hesitated before that. The series lacks those dramatic moments in which the hero mentally falters on the way to eventual victory.

    This post gives a more detailed explanation:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...626#post212626
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #29
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    Skywalker is INFP and Yoda is INFJ, right?

  10. #30
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Luke Skywalker was an archetypal hero character. This is easy to discern because he never had a moment's doubt about his value-system. And his primary concerns lie in the immediate moment. He had his mind made up from the moment he found his adoptive parents were killed, although he hesitated before that. The series lacks those dramatic moments in which the hero mentally falters on the way to eventual victory.

    This post gives a more detailed explanation:
    http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...626#post212626
    I don't think he's archetypal, for the reasons stated.. That he saw a way to redeem Vader. Redemption is not archetypal in hero stories. That's left for saints and martyrs.

    Otherwise, the rest of the story is archetypal. Lucas did take a card from Joseph Campbell, after all. But most heroes don't leave room for Vader. Antiheroes definitely don't, but even the usual goody goody hero doesn't. Most heroes are written in a way where they'd be "betraying" their cause by not ending it with someone like that.

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