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Thread: INFP - ISFP

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Family commitments typically come first for the ISFP (I'm only considering the parents here). Once I read a description of the issues a family was having with their INFP mother, because she didn't commit enough time to her family. At best, one could call this a "relaxed" attitude toward home commitments, and that's not so bad. But an over-concern with broad humanitarian interests which plague their powerful consciences can cause this relaxed attitude toward family to become too removed, and the family begins to feel that their problems are being ignored or brushed over, for example, if mom or dad (especially mom) are often out fighting for the "good of society," attending meetings, political fund-raisers, etc.

    That's not to say ISFPs don't have a problem with making commitments to home. But you won't catch them out playing politics, rather, neglectfully out enjoying themselves. And that doesn't take care of their own real needs either (which are typically emotional and self-esteem issues), it's only an escape from dealing with them. At a deeper level, one could say that the overly-humanitarian INFP who is out campaigning for the public good all the time, while neglecting the family at home, is also using exciting social concerns as an escape from the day-to-day drudgery of the Sensory home life.

    As for Marmie, who will automatically attack certain webpages for various suspect reasons: I'm not using PersonalityPage as a definitive source on anything, in fact, I will ignore anything that doesn't match what I've already learned after 20 YEARS of practicing typology. In the beginning, I would use sources as original out of sheer necessity. But nowadays I use them just to put into words things I already know about the types, or to jog my memory about things I've known about for years but can't seem to call forward at will. I am a type 5 INTP, after all, and I'm acting true to type. But if my motives matched those Marmie projects onto me, then I would be more of an SJ type simply repeating memorized formulas like my boss does. And if I let her have her way, this thread would be hijacked into a conversation about personaltypage.com. Thread-hijacking is one reason I have her on ignore.
    Is okay Mal. I haz already been told I remind u of ISFP wife. I knowz why u haz me on ignore.

    I delight in being a thorn, it's true. I get giggles from it.

    But honestly, man, I'm just arguing with the IDEAS not saying you're an SJ...and I like SJs, so it's not like it would be an insult if I did.

    I do know what you mean about someone caring about "humanitarian efforts" beyond their own personal welfare or family or whatever, and I agree.

    Like years before I really looked into personality theory I expressed a certain disgust (gosh this has been like back in 2003 or 2004) that sometimes liberal politics mean people care about theoretical strangers and not the people they walk past on the street.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Is okay Mal. I haz already been told I remind u of ISFP wife. I knowz why u haz me on ignore.

    I delight in being a thorn, it's true. I get giggles from it.

    But honestly, man, I'm just arguing with the IDEAS not saying you're an SJ...and I like SJs, so it's not like it would be an insult if I did.

    I do know what you mean about someone caring about "humanitarian efforts" beyond their own personal welfare or family or whatever, and I agree.

    Like years before I really looked into personality theory I expressed a certain disgust (gosh this has been like back in 2003 or 2004) that sometimes liberal politics mean people care about theoretical strangers and not the people they walk past on the street.
    YES!

    By the way, when you changed your enneatype to 6w7, I changed my wife's to 9w8 just to be on the safe side.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #13
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Any "angle" is weak simply because it is only that - an angle. Consider the story of the three blind men and the elephant. Each blind man thought he knew what an elephant was - it felt like a trunk, or a tail, or an elephant's leg, and that "angle" on the elephant become the blind man's concept of the elephant.

    So saying that I have an "angle" on the subject is a circular argument, since we all have an angle and not the whole elephant. Therefore, pulling this card out of the deck automatically grants anybody the winner.

    The rest of your post doesn't respond to anything I wrote in the op or after. Obviously, anybody who becomes a parent must take on the role of parenting, and to this is ascribed certain duties, like it or not. These duties are not type-specific or even necessarily gender-specific except as far as child-bearing is concerned. So not only are you off-topic, your argument is weak.

    I've seen the rhetorical "where are you getting this" comment posted quite frequently on this forum, and it's getting old. I think I stated where I am "getting" this. So I'll have to ask about your Fe/Fi statement - where are you getting THAT? It sounds like yet another blind man's concept of an elephant - it is JUST another angle.

    I don't even have an argument. It's more like a question.. stated in facetious terms.

    The question was where you were getting this? I'm honestly clueless why you focused on that. You paint a picture of ISFPs as if they're like really devoted soccer moms and big brothers. They may or may not be, but that's not what Jungian Se or even larger, holistic "ISFP" descriptions are about.

    As for my Fe/Fi statement, it's self-evident. One is more inclined to be extroverted feeling. Another is focused on individualized/introvert values.

  4. #14
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    Yeah devoted soccer moms sounds more like ESFJ stereotype, and even that discounts Jungian theory in favor of holistic description.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    I don't even have an argument. It's more like a question.. stated in facetious terms.

    The question was where you were getting this? I'm honestly clueless why you focused on that. You paint a picture of ISFPs as if they're like really devoted soccer moms and big brothers. They may or may not be, but that's not what Jungian Se or even larger, holistic "ISFP" descriptions are about.

    I don't see where you're getting that. I'm not saying anybody is really anything. But if my big brother had been an ISFP instead of an ISTJ, I think I would have been much better off in my home life.

    As for my Fe/Fi statement, it's self-evident. One is more inclined to be extroverted feeling. Another is focused on individualized/introvert values.
    You started that argument by saying, "Even if I were to ascribe family duties to a type," so there was more to it than just saying "Fe = extroverted feeling." But my argument that duties exist no matter what type you are is still relevant. I admittedly implied it in the beginning, and why shouldn't I? Shouldn't a parent act the parent role, no matter what type?

    Lucky for some types, they are more born to it than others. But the proper parental role has to be a guiding standard for criticizing both the positive and negative aspects of personality type and parenting. When the family feels neglected or is acting out because of neglect, no doubt the family really is being neglected at least in most cases. In such cases, one or both parents is not fulfilling parental duties. The INFP parent is, at best, a relaxed negotiator, and at worst, becomes too relaxed about family issues and practically abandons the family in favor of wider social issues. The ISFP is neglectful in the pursuit of having fun. But they both have in common this "mama bear" attitude that is not mentioned about the ISFP, while it is mentioned about the INFP in two sources I've found, and that was my entire point.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #16
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    This was one of the most inspiring songs I heard as kid. That and this:



    I don't think it was a mistake that an ISFP, not an NF, who sparked my interest in caring about world politics.

  7. #17
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    You started that argument by saying, "Even if I were to ascribe family duties to a type," so there was more to it than just saying "Fe = extroverted feeling." But my argument that duties exist no matter what type you are is still relevant. I admittedly implied it in the beginning, and why shouldn't I? Shouldn't a parent act the parent role, no matter what type?

    Lucky for some types, they are more born to it than others. But the proper parental role has to be a guiding standard for criticizing both the positive and negative aspects of personality type and parenting. When the family feels neglected or is acting out because of neglect, no doubt the family really is being neglected at least in most cases. In such cases, one or both parents is not fulfilling parental duties. The INFP parent is, at best, a relaxed negotiator, and at worst, becomes too relaxed about family issues and practically abandons the family in favor of wider social issues. The ISFP is neglectful in the pursuit of having fun. But they both have in common this "mama bear" attitude that is not mentioned about the ISFP, while it is mentioned about the INFP in two sources I've found, and that was my entire point.
    Thanks for clarifying.

    I don't think ISFPs are typically "mama bears" though. I think that's the part you've somehow projected. They're quite capable of being inconsiderate assholes from someone's point of view. Not just because they chase fun, but it could be out of passion too. Maybe you've read too much sensitivity into it because they're "Fs"? I mean, some could be like the poster boy/girl bitchy rockstar/artist types, for one. Some could be carpenters who'd prefer to sit in their workshop all day and wish you'd leave them alone. Maybe the carpenter is "mama bear" if he has a bushy brown beard, but the comparisons end there

  8. #18
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Thanks for clarifying.

    I don't think ISFPs are typically "mama bears" though. I think that's the part you've somehow projected. They're quite capable of being inconsiderate assholes from someone's point of view. Not just because they chase fun, but it could be out of passion too. Maybe you've read too much sensitivity into it because they're "Fs"? I mean, some could be like the poster boy/girl bitchy rockstar/artist types, for one. Some could be carpenters who'd prefer to sit in their workshop all day and wish you'd leave them alone. Maybe the carpenter is "mama bear" if he has a bushy brown beard, but the comparisons end there
    Neither the INFP nor the ISFP is typically a "mama bear." The descriptions of the INFP don't claim it to be a typical trait. Neither of those types spend all day every day 24/7 angrily defending their values. But it happens, and when it does happen, I find it to be rather disconcerting behavior from these typically laid-back people. I'm speaking of both types in question, whereas the typology pages only reference the INFP.

    Anyway, I can go into greater detail about types than any of these typology pages. So, much of the time, if you ask "where I'm getting this," I've been people-watching for over 20 years, every day of my life, based in the context of 3 or 4 different typology systems. And while that doesn't imply that I know everything about it, I can say that the information gleaned from webpages is very paltry in comparison to my years of observations. I've never been satisfied with mere book larnin', and that goes doubly for webpages. I respect books more than webpages for general information and leads.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #19
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I've never been satisfied with mere book larnin', and that goes doubly for webpages. I respect books more than webpages for general information and leads.
    Fair enough. I just was confused on the family thing and thought it was an odd (or too specific) association.

    ..

    Actually, I misunderstood the "mama bear" term. At first, I was picturing some big furry thing in an apron. My bad. You meant something aggressive. Yeah, I know what you mean.

  10. #20
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    Fair enough. I just was confused on the family thing and thought it was an odd (or too specific) association.

    ..

    Actually, I misunderstood the "mama bear" term. At first, I was picturing some big furry thing in an apron. My bad. You meant something aggressive. Yeah, I know what you mean.
    I did use scare-quotes for a reason. Try this television tropes page for an explanation of "mama bear."
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MamaBear
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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