Elfboy's theory on the Light Worker, the Dark Worker and Objectivism

[Thalassa]

that wasn't really my point, I'm actually advocating the opposite. it's about motivation. pick a side. accomplishing something great requires being motivated to either a) make the world a better place or b) pursue your own self interests first. everyone has both, but to be motivated, you must know which one is higher priority. motivation is the source of power, power which can be used to help yourself or others, which is why the end result of a light worker and dark worker are kind of similar and after a point it is possible to pursue both effectively
I never said that there aren't good and evil, I said that it is not directly correlated with light worker/dark worker.

Ok.

no, it's only loosely correlated with enneagram and somewhat with MBTI.
Light Worker: SJs, NFs, 1s, 2s, 9s, Social Instinct
Dark Worker: SPs, NTs, 3s, 7s, 8s, Self Preservation Instinct

Martin Luther King Jr for example is an 8w9 Light Worker (as is Mufasa from the Lion King). George Lucas is a 9w1 dark worker

What if I told you I know an SJ 9 sx/so who understands and believes in the concept of pursuing his own interests first, but also isn't really dark, and still cares about certain issues.

It doesn't really align with your theory that only Dark Workers think of themselves first. It would seem that Dark Workers think of themselves *only*...which is kind of an insult to SPs, NTs, et al.

 

[Seymour]

Donald Trump isn't a narcissist, he's just a cocky 8w7. that's how they role
50 Cent is one of the most grounded people in the entertainment industry

Trump is kind of the definitive example of a successful narcissist (along with Paris Hilton). In what sense is he not a narcissist?

50 Cent I know less about, but he is big on taking credit for things. Some of that may well be wrapper posturing.

 

[Elfboy]

What if I told you I know an SJ 9 sx/so who understands and believes in the concept of pursuing his own interests first, but also isn't really dark, and still cares about certain issues.

It doesn't really align with your theory that only Dark Workers think of themselves first. It would seem that Dark Workers think of themselves *only*...which is kind of an insult to SPs, NTs, et al.

I would say that you didn't understand me correctly. the SJ 9 Sx/So you mentioned is indeed a dark worker. dark worker do not ONLY think of themselves, they think of themselves first. their main agenda/goal is to get their desires met. dark workers are not bad people, society simply makes them out to be much of the time

 

[Elfboy]

Trump is kind of the definitive example of a successful narcissist (along with Paris Hilton). In what sense is he not a narcissist?

50 Cent I know less about, but he is big on taking credit for things. Some of that may well be wrapper posturing.

you're the one making the accusation in this case, thus, I'd like to see your evidence than he is a narcissist. until then, I think it's a little unfair to say he is a narcissist without some sort of backing
as to 50 cent, taking credit for things =/= narcissist. if that were the case, just about all 3s by definition would be narcissists he worked his way out of the friggin ghetto and became a billionaire rapper and entrepreneur. I think he deserves to take credit if he wants it

 

[Elfboy]

Trump is kind of the definitive example of a successful narcissist (along with Paris Hilton). In what sense is he not a narcissist?

50 Cent I know less about, but he is big on taking credit for things. Some of that may well be wrapper posturing.

you're the one making the accusation in this case, thus, I'd like to see your evidence than he is a narcissist. until then, I think it's a little unfair to say he is a narcissist without some sort of backing
as to 50 cent, taking credit for things =/= narcissist. if that were the case, just about all 3s by definition would be narcissists he worked his way out of the friggin ghetto and became a billionaire rapper and entrepreneur. I think he deserves to take credit if he wants it

 

[Thalassa]

I would say that you didn't understand me correctly. the SJ 9 Sx/So you mentioned is indeed a dark worker. dark worker do not ONLY think of themselves, they think of themselves first. their main agenda/goal is to get their desires met. dark workers are not bad people, society simply makes them out to be much of the time

I would think that anyone who isn't a doormat would think of themselves first.

Of course, I base this on the tactical principle that you can't give anything to anyone else if you don't have enough for yourself.

If I have xyz, I can help my family and friends, give to charity, blah blah blah. If I get enough sleep and have enough to eat, I can be more patient with other people.

I just don't think that all of those Light Workers never thought of themselves. You sure Ron Paul didn't make sure he had his own first? It's kind of hard to be in the position he's in without making sure your own is taken care of first.

Then there are people like Mother Theresa who take a vow of poverty, or Ghandi who starved himself. I would agree those people are completely selfless.

But I think the lines between light and dark could blur, and that most of the dark examples you gave were too extreme if you only mean they just take care of themselves first.

 

[Thalassa]

the SJ 9 Sx/So you mentioned is indeed a dark worker

many people on the internetz would agree

 

[Elfboy]

I would think that anyone who isn't a doormat would think of themselves first.
Of course, I base this on the tactical principle that you can't give anything to anyone else if you don't have enough for yourself.
If I have xyz, I can help my family and friends, give to charity, blah blah blah. If I get enough sleep and have enough to eat, I can be more patient with other people.
I just don't think that all of those Light Workers never thought of themselves. You sure Ron Paul didn't make sure he had his own first? It's kind of hard to be in the position he's in without making sure your own is taken care of first.
Then there are people like Mother Theresa who take a vow of poverty, or Ghandi who starved himself. I would agree those people are completely selfless.
But I think the lines between light and dark could blur, and that most of the dark examples you gave were too extreme if you only mean they just take care of themselves first.

you're still missing my point, it's about priorities. most people are wishy washy about whether they want to help others more or help themselves more. this keeps them from being strongly motivated and accomplishing a lot. of course, if one doesn't want to accomplish a lot, there is no need to prioritize.
Edit: I don't know what it's like where you live, but I sure know a lot more doormats IRL than assertive people, and most of the true light workers I know aren't doormats either. I again use Dr. Martin Luther King as an example. not one ounce of doormat in him

 

[Thalassa]

you're still missing my point, it's about priorities. most people are wishy washy about whether they want to help others more or help themselves more. this keeps them from being strongly motivated and accomplishing a lot. of course, if one doesn't want to accomplish a lot, there is no need to prioritize.

Oh wow I get it.

I get it now.

Thanks for explaining. It makes a LOT of sense.

 

[Elfboy]

Oh wow I get it.
I get it now.
Thanks for explaining. It makes a LOT of sense.

are you being sarcastic? (not trying to sound mean. I seriously can't tell lol)

 

[Thalassa]

are you being sarcastic? (not trying to sound mean. I seriously can't tell lol)

Oh I'm sorry. I was being serious. I do get it now. It makes sense to me because in order to accomplish a lot you have to be really driven with a cause - whether that cause is taking care of you and building an empire, or devoting your life to giving.

 

[Elfboy]

Oh I'm sorry. I was being serious. I do get it now. It makes sense to me because in order to accomplish a lot you have to be really driven with a cause - whether that cause is taking care of you and building an empire, or devoting your life to giving.

yeah. you can do both, but it gets more done if you do one at a time. once you've reached proficiency in one, it's easier to do the other too, though I think most people have a deep seated preference for one or the other. my mom and dad are pure light workers and I'm a definite dark worker

 

[Thalassa]

yeah. you can do both, but it gets more done if you do one at a time. once you've reached proficiency in one, it's easier to do the other too, though I think most people have a deep seated preference for one or the other. my mom and dad are pure light workers and I'm a definite dark worker

I try to do both. That's why I'm so scattered.

 

[Elfboy]

I try to do both. That's why I'm so scattered.

exactly
I'm having difficulties with a similar problem. light worker/dark worker is just one piece in figuring out what you want your agenda in life to be. I am a clear dark worker, but I'm trying to decide everything that I want to do and get a game plan (as opposed to sitting at my computer drinking tea 7 hours a day)

 

[Thalassa]

(as opposed to sitting at my computer drinking tea 7 hours a day)

yeah...I know...I know....

It can happen when your goals change too. I had x goal, then I had y goal, and I achieved those goals. Then I had z goal, and decided I didn't want that after all, so I went for xy goal and ran into some snags getting that (but I did it!)

And now I need to figure out what my new goal is.

 

[Elfboy]

yeah...I know...I know....

It can happen when your goals change too. I had x goal, then I had y goal, and I achieved those goals. Then I had z goal, and decided I didn't want that after all, so I went for xy goal and ran into some snags getting that (but I did it!)

And now I need to figure out what my new goal is.

what is the general trend of the goals you've accomplished? are they related to each other

 

[Thalassa]

what is the general trend of the goals you've accomplished? are they related to each other

Ugh I was talking to ISTJ the other day about this because his whole thing is "I thought that was your goal and I wanted to help you to accomplish it by setting a time limit on it." Because I told him I sometimes need to be helped with structure ...I grew up with two STJs.

To begin with, I wanted to be financially independent. So I left home at 18 and did that. Then I wanted to move to the West coast. I did that. I lived in southern CA for a while, then in Vegas for 6 years. Wanted to be in a relationship. Did that. That ended for various reasons. Fine. I decided I wanted to go back to WV, re-connect with my mom and sisters, and go to college. Did that. I wanted to be a straight A student I did that. I thought I wanted to be a teacher. OH HELL NO. I ended my college experience because I realized I didn't know why I was there anymore. I was working, going to school, had no social life, was starting to hate WV, and no longer felt like I was working toward anything relevant. Wanted to come back to live in CA. Did that. Decided to move up to the Bay area. Well, something happened which has interrupted my cash flow with that.

But see - that's not enough. The whole problem is that I need a CAREER. I'm currently an editor and free-lance writer and take other part-time jobs for six weeks at a time or whatever for extra money.

I've lost whatever career goal I have. I don't know what I want to do anymore. I really thought I wanted to work within the system, and now I know I don't. I'm very disillusioned.

I've thought about going to culinary school, but ISTJ just told me a few days ago that they're saying on the news that it's not getting people jobs in CA right now.

So I'm just stagnant. I'm working on myself though. My present goal in the middle of this stagnation is to work on myself psychologically/spiritually, et al.

 

[ReflecTcelfeR]

I get this theory, but what does it bring to the table that isn't brought by any other system? Does it clarify fuzzy information in some other system?

 

[Seymour]

you're the one making the accusation in this case, thus, I'd like to see your evidence than he is a narcissist. until then, I think it's a little unfair to say he is a narcissist without some sort of backing
as to 50 cent, taking credit for things =/= narcissist. if that were the case, just about all 3s by definition would be narcissists he worked his way out of the friggin ghetto and became a billionaire rapper and entrepreneur. I think he deserves to take credit if he wants it

Actually, I don't have to make the case about Trump, because others already have. For example, a point by point case for the diagnostic criteria (with Trump quotations) case is made here (and remember, you only need five of the nine diagnostic criteria). Mentions of Trump as a clear narcissist are here, here, here, here, here and many other places.


For the visually inclined, there is this:

Which is so over-idealized as to be laughable, complete with clouds parting behind trump's head in halo-like fashion. Other fun trump quotes:

"All of the women on*The Apprentice flirted with me - consciously or unconsciously. That's to be expected."

"If I run and if I win, this country will be respected again. I can tell you that."

"I think I probably have more experience of anybody [in the GOP field] — whether I sell them real estate for tremendous amounts of money. I mean, I've dealt with everybody. And by the way, I can tell you something else. I dealt with Gaddafi. I rented him a piece of land. He paid me more for one night than the land was worth for two years, and then I didn't let him use the land. That's what we should be doing. I don't want to use the word 'screwed,' but I screwed him."

On the White House's release of Obama's birth certificate: "Today I am very proud of myself because I have accomplished something that nobody else has been able to accomplish."


I find it hard to imagine someone more narcissistic (although it's perfectly possible to imagine someone equally narcissistic and less successful). If you don't see Trump as narcissistic, is there anyone you do?

 

[Elfboy]

Actually, I don't have to make the case about Trump, because others already have. For example, a point by point case for the diagnostic criteria (with Trump quotations) case is made here (and remember, you only need five of the nine diagnostic criteria). Mentions of Trump as a clear narcissist are here, here, here, here, here and many other places.


For the visually inclined, there is this:

Which is so over-idealized as to be laughable, complete with clouds parting behind trump's head in halo-like fashion. Other fun trump quotes:

"All of the women on*The Apprentice flirted with me - consciously or unconsciously. That's to be expected."

"If I run and if I win, this country will be respected again. I can tell you that."

"I think I probably have more experience of anybody [in the GOP field] — whether I sell them real estate for tremendous amounts of money. I mean, I've dealt with everybody. And by the way, I can tell you something else. I dealt with Gaddafi. I rented him a piece of land. He paid me more for one night than the land was worth for two years, and then I didn't let him use the land. That's what we should be doing. I don't want to use the word 'screwed,' but I screwed him."

On the White House's release of Obama's birth certificate: "Today I am very proud of myself because I have accomplished something that nobody else has been able to accomplish."


I find it hard to imagine someone more narcissistic (although it's perfectly possible to imagine someone equally narcissistic and less successful). If you don't see Trump as narcissistic, is there anyone you do?

4,5 and 8 aren't true of him