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  1. #71
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    because not everybody has the ability to just get up and leave where they are. you're still just putting this into the context of someone like you who has opportunities like that. a lot of people are born into poverty, their whole family is in poverty, they're born in one place and stay there their whole life because that's how it is and it's all they know. they can't uproot their lives, because they don't have the resources to do so, and everything/everyone they know is in the same place. you're not naive because you've never been poor, you're naive because you're blind to how being poor affects people. and you have no authority to speak on "it's not as hard as people make it out to be," because you've never experienced it or probably even seen it firsthand.
    if it's all they know, they should get more educated. and I don't mean they have to have to go college and get a PhD. knowing that their are other places in the country with better job markets is something that doesn't take a lot of time to learn. some of the most capitalist friends I have grew up in poverty, abuse and poor education. everyone has an individual brain and is capable of making independent decisions. and this is assuming no one helps them, when in reality, lots of people would want to help them.
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  2. #72
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    if it's all they know, they should get more educated. and I don't mean they have to have to go college and get a PhD. knowing that their are other places in the country with better job markets is something that doesn't take a lot of time to learn. some of the most capitalist friends I have grew up in poverty, abuse and poor education. everyone has an individual brain and is capable of making independent decisions. and this is assuming no one helps them, when in reality, lots of people would want to help them.
    yeah, some of the most capitalist friends i have grew up in poverty, abuse and poor education too. they're called drug dealers. welcome to oakland, bitch.

  3. #73
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    yeah, some of the most capitalist friends i have grew up in poverty, abuse and poor education too. they're called drug dealers. welcome to oakland, bitch.
    that's a different conversation, much more suitable for a "legalize marajuana" thread
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  4. #74
    libtard SJW chickpea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    that's a different conversation, much more suitable for a "legalize marajuana" thread
    i wasn't even talking about weed or legalizing drugs. i'm saying the most capitalist people growing up in shitty situations most likely aren't going to end up moving to another city to find a minimum-wage job, they're going to hustle and work with what they know.

  5. #75
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    i wasn't even talking about weed or legalizing drugs. i'm saying the most capitalist people growing up in shitty situations most likely aren't going to end up moving to another city to find a minimum-wage job, they're going to hustle and work with what they know.
    I would argue that most of the drug dealers out there are not true capitalists. capitalists don't force people to buy their products, that's called coercion. to the drug dealers who don't do this, more power to'em.
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  6. #76
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    because not everybody has the ability to just get up and leave where they are. you're still just putting this into the context of someone like you who has opportunities like that. a lot of people are born into poverty, their whole family is in poverty, they're born in one place and stay there their whole life because that's how it is and it's all they know. they can't uproot their lives, because they don't have the resources to do so, and everything/everyone they know is in the same place. you're not naive because you've never been poor, you're naive because you're blind to how being poor affects people. and you have no authority to speak on "it's not as hard as people make it out to be," because you've never experienced it or probably even seen it firsthand.
    It's actually kind of funny, and not worth getting mad at him about. But it's like he'll only approach these issues from what it might be like within some small suburban context or something. I mean, there are elderly women in Morroco, for example, who gather up all their vegetables each morning, rotten and fresh alike, sit around in market squares all day, and maybe get a few customers at best. They have little means to mobilize and do better than this. It's just life for them. And has been for some regions for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. They're not going to college.. they're not going to be the next CEO of some new startup netflix competitor. They're not going to have super awesome clothes and be a snob about meaningless bullshit. They're not even going to have a minimum wage job cleaning toilets at the local McD's. It is NOT going to happen to them no matter what they wish or what some outsider with some trite "motivational speaker" schtick ever says to them. They are born to be screwed, relatively speaking. God isn't helping them, motivation isn't helping, their country isn't helping, other countries may help a tad by virtue of foreign aid.. if that.. but basically, this isn't an easily changeable situation

    I've seen some of this in the west though too. Probably the worst I've witnessed was a bum in Houston digging through the garbage near a restaurant, and gorging on some raw guts they had thrown away. I almost puked. And just a few steps away from him was an old, legless, Vietnam veteran in a wheelchair, begging outside a store. These two guys were fucked, and nothing probably changed for them. This was years ago, but it would have taken a miracle if their fortunes changed.

    Meh. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir. No one really needs to be reminded of things like this.

    To get off that topic, I also think he simplifies some historical figures. Joan of Arc an icon for the altruistic side? You do know that she commanded armies and helped lead a war against England, right? Have you ever imagined what it'd be like to be in a battle circa 1400-1500? Whether she ever raised a sword herself, she was close enough to the carnage that she was almost mortally wounded herself. I get the image of a lot more tougher person than some dreamy altruistic saint.

    Anyways.

  7. #77
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    if it's all they know, they should get more educated. and I don't mean they have to have to go college and get a PhD. knowing that their are other places in the country with better job markets is something that doesn't take a lot of time to learn. some of the most capitalist friends I have grew up in poverty, abuse and poor education. everyone has an individual brain and is capable of making independent decisions. and this is assuming no one helps them, when in reality, lots of people would want to help them.


    you have no idea, clearly. You are in a lucky reality.
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  8. #78
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It's actually kind of funny, and not worth getting mad at him about. But it's like he'll only approach these issues from what it might be like within some small suburban context or something. I mean, there are elderly women in Morroco, for example, who gather up all their vegetables each morning, rotten and fresh alike, sit around in market squares all day, and maybe get a few customers at best. They have little means to mobilize and do better than this. It's just life for them. And has been for some regions for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. They're not going to college.. they're not going to be the next CEO of some new startup netflix competitor. They're not going to have super awesome clothes and be a snob about meaningless bullshit. They're not even going to have a minimum wage job cleaning toilets at the local McD's. It is NOT going to happen to them no matter what they wish or what some outsider with some trite "motivational speaker" schtick ever says to them. They are born to be screwed, relatively speaking. God isn't helping them, motivation isn't helping, their country isn't helping, other countries may help a tad by virtue of foreign aid.. if that.. but basically, this isn't an easily changeable situation

    I've seen some of this in the west though too. Probably the worst I've witnessed was a bum in Houston digging through the garbage near a restaurant, and gorging on some raw guts they had thrown away. I almost puked. And just a few steps away from him was an old, legless, Vietnam veteran in a wheelchair, begging outside a store. These two guys were fucked, and nothing probably changed for them. This was years ago, but it would have taken a miracle if their fortunes changed.

    Meh. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir. No one really needs to be reminded of things like this.

    To get off that topic, I also think he simplifies some historical figures. Joan of Arc an icon for the altruistic side? You do know that she commanded armies and helped lead a war against England, right? Have you ever imagined what it'd be like to be in a battle circa 1400-1500? Whether she ever raised a sword herself, she was close enough to the carnage that she was almost mortally wounded herself. I get the image of a lot more tougher person than some dreamy altruistic saint.

    Anyways.
    this is actually beautifully well spoken... there are many unlucky situations, not only these. Sometimes there is just no choice but to survive.
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  9. #79
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KDude View Post
    It's actually kind of funny, and not worth getting mad at him about. But it's like he'll only approach these issues from what it might be like within some small suburban context or something. I mean, there are elderly women in Morroco, for example, who gather up all their vegetables each morning, rotten and fresh alike, sit around in market squares all day, and maybe get a few customers at best. They have little means to mobilize and do better than this. It's just life for them. And has been for some regions for hundreds, if not thousands, of years. They're not going to college.. they're not going to be the next CEO of some new startup netflix competitor. They're not going to have super awesome clothes and be a snob about meaningless bullshit. They're not even going to have a minimum wage job cleaning toilets at the local McD's. It is NOT going to happen to them no matter what they wish or what some outsider with some trite "motivational speaker" schtick ever says to them. They are born to be screwed, relatively speaking. God isn't helping them, motivation isn't helping, their country isn't helping, other countries may help a tad by virtue of foreign aid.. if that.. but basically, this isn't an easily changeable situation

    I've seen some of this in the west though too. Probably the worst I've witnessed was a bum in Houston digging through the garbage near a restaurant, and gorging on some raw guts they had thrown away. I almost puked. And just a few steps away from him was an old, legless, Vietnam veteran in a wheelchair, begging outside a store. These two guys were fucked, and nothing probably changed for them. This was years ago, but it would have taken a miracle if their fortunes changed.

    Meh. I'm sure I'm preaching to the choir. No one really needs to be reminded of things like this.

    To get off that topic, I also think he simplifies some historical figures. Joan of Arc an icon for the altruistic side? You do know that she commanded armies and helped lead a war against England, right? Have you ever imagined what it'd be like to be in a battle circa 1400-1500? Whether she ever raised a sword herself, she was close enough to the carnage that she was almost mortally wounded herself. I get the image of a lot more tougher person than some dreamy altruistic saint.

    Anyways.
    why would I spend time thinking about old women in Morocco? that's not gonna make me any goddamn money lol
    people seem to think sitting around worrying about destitute countries makes them better people or something, but most of the people who DO make a difference in their lives are productive, enterprising people who met their own needs first and then help others later. when it comes to making a difference in the world (which I don't really care about doing anyway) it's not the thought that counts, it's action. other countries with different living situations aside, in America at least, if you are poor and don't do anything about it, it's your own damn fault. people just don't want to take responsibility for their actions and the results that ensue. no one is "born to be screwed" that's just defeatist rubbish. "If they'd rather die, they better do it, and decrease the surplus population" (Ebeneezer Scrooge)
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  10. #80
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    why would I spend time thinking about old women in Morocco? that's not gonna make me any goddamn money lol
    people seem to think sitting around worrying about destitute countries makes them better people or something, but most of the people who DO make a difference in their lives are productive, enterprising people who met their own needs first and then help others later. when it comes to making a difference in the world (which I don't really care about doing anyway) it's not the thought that counts, it's action. other countries with different living situations aside, in America at least, if you are poor and don't do anything about it, it's your own damn fault. people just don't want to take responsibility for their actions and the results that ensue. no one is "born to be screwed" that's just defeatist rubbish. "If they'd rather die, they better do it, and decrease the surplus population" (Ebeneezer Scrooge)
    We're not questioning your blessed reality- we're making you aware of others realities. I'm actually enthralled by the lady in morocco whether it makes me a better person or not. It makes me a more grateful person, a more wealthy person. I can tell you that much. The more humble and grateful I am, the wealthier I am- that's my experience.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
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    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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