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  1. #61
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    If Marmie is an ISFP, then it's not that she is more E but that she is more S.
    By saying I thought she was more "E"; I wasn't referring to the Se of ISFP (or the other stuff I was referring to, like pragmatism), but rather simply being a dominant extravert.
    This, however, is how she scored on the Fudjack-Dinkelaker Functional Preferences Instrument on 4-24-2011 -
    N = 20
    S = 1
    F = 7
    T = 8

    In other words, the preference order is N-T-F-S. Intuition was the leading and by far most outstanding score on Marmie's test result.

    Marmie agreed with this for the most part, stating only that the F-T difference was off by one letter, hinting that she really prefers F over T, and implying that N belongs at the top in the order of preference.

    Let's assume that she does prefer F over T. This gives a preference order of N-F-T-S. So if she is an introvert, that gives NiFe, or iNfj (Ni with j-closure), as one possibility, but it also allows iNfp as another possibility. The latter is an Ni with p-non-closure, which is not allowed for by the MBTI naming convention for determining type.

    So yes, Personality Page is crap insofar as the MBTI is a crappy theory based on circular reasoning and fallacy-riddled assumptions.
    I had forgotten about this, but this was one of the big evidences for ENFP (NeFiTeSi). She may have scored close on T/F, but that IIRC we had determined was likely a strong tertiary.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  2. #62
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    By saying I thought she was more "E"; I wasn't referring to the Se of ISFP (or the other stuff I was referring to, like pragmatism), but rather simply being a dominant extravert. I had forgotten about this, but this was one of the big evidences for ENFP (NeFiTeSi). She may have scored close on T/F, but that IIRC we had determined was likely a strong tertiary.
    It is difficult to believe that someone could accidentally score a 20 on that test on any function even if the test is defective in some way. But most pinpoint the scale for F, and sometimes the S, as problematic. I agree that tertiaries cause some hang-ups with accurate test results.

    How could a person not know if they are extraverted or introverted? This is one of the most well-established psychological categories in the known universe. Ambiverts don't exist in the MBTI sphere, and Jung had no place for an attitude function which was directed neither here nor there. So Marmie must have some kind of bipolar issue going on.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #63
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    @Eric B I score so high on the PTypes hedonist temperament that it's no joke, mang. I told you in another thread that I had this same score a long time ago before I understood what it meant, and just assumed it meant I was an embarrassingly impulsive, selfish person. I also relate to the Keirsey SP temperament. I have given evidence for why I believe I show a consistent pattern of being an introvert, except for my ability to express myself, especially in writing, and especially as a grown woman (not so much as a child or teenager, though I could be quite talkative around family and close friends). I am downright reclusive. Someone JUST TODAY marvelled at how silently I walk and how he felt that I "snuck up on him" like "where did you come from?" Same thing happened about a week ago with a woman at another location "oh my gosh you're quiet you even walk quietly." I even try to shut doors quietly unless I'm angry. The guy today said he's going to start calling me James Bond and asked me if I was a spy. If you knew how much this was intensified with social passivity and anxiety between the ages of 6-14, you would understand what I'm attempting to communicate.

    My exes dad also called me "this quiet little angel who acts like the devil when she's mad."

    Another thing is this new thing Seymour posted with the neurological types...and how I clearly picked the exact sections of the brain most frequently used by Fi doms rather than Se or Ne doms.

  4. #64
    The Eighth Colour Octarine's Avatar
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    At what point do we accept that these type descriptions and models lack the specificity to fully describe real people?
    We need to fill in the blanks ourselves and that means accepting some contradictions.

  5. #65
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    It is difficult to believe that someone could accidentally score a 20 on that test on any function even if the test is defective in some way. But most pinpoint the scale for F, and sometimes the S, as problematic. I agree that tertiaries cause some hang-ups with accurate test results.

    How could a person not know if they are extraverted or introverted? This is one of the most well-established psychological categories in the known universe. Ambiverts don't exist in the MBTI sphere, and Jung had no place for an attitude function which was directed neither here nor there. So Marmie must have some kind of bipolar issue going on.
    But I/E is also the "least important" (as Keirsey even said), from a functional perspective, as it only tells you which function is dominant (in addition to Keirsey's theory, which doesn't even use the functions).
    A lot of times, people have difficulty telling which is dominant or auxiliary. So she knows she prefers Fi, but it's a matter of whether that's dominant or auxiliary, and whether the perception function is Se or Ne.

    The discussion moves back and forth between behavior and functions and test results.

    What I see is that the system I discuss, which does include ambiversion, is what explains it. She's basically inbetween temperaments in both Inclusion (affecting E/I) and Control (affecting S/N), and there have been other people with similar effects in one system who have the same results in the other.

    Just that to me, her hehavior online (which is all I know of) resembles ENFP's more. (Remember Little Linguist?)
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  6. #66
    likes this gromit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Catbert View Post
    At what point do we accept that these type descriptions and models lack the specificity to fully describe real people?
    We need to fill in the blanks ourselves and that means accepting some contradictions.
    Yes it's true Catbert.
    Your kisses, sweeter than honey. But guess what, so is my money.

  7. #67
    it's tea time! Walking Tourist's Avatar
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    That was the quality of isfp that convinced me that i am an esfp.
    I don't like conflict but I am too expressive to be considered "passive."

    Quote Originally Posted by chana View Post
    honestly, you don't seem like an isfp to me. most of the ones i know would probably relate to that, they're all pretty passive and non-confrontational. that doesn't mean they're pushovers, but they definitely avoid conflict and are generally private people.

    i do hate the part of the infp relationship section on personalitypage that says we enjoy words said during sex more than the actual act. fuck that.
    I'm a little teapot, short and stout. Here is my handle and here is my spout. Every time I steam up, I give a shout. Just tip me over and pour me out.

  8. #68
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    But I/E is also the "least important" (as Keirsey even said), from a functional perspective, as it only tells you which function is dominant (in addition to Keirsey's theory, which doesn't even use the functions).
    A lot of times, people have difficulty telling which is dominant or auxiliary. So she knows she prefers Fi, but it's a matter of whether that's dominant or auxiliary, and whether the perception function is Se or Ne.

    The discussion moves back and forth between behavior and functions and test results.

    What I see is that the system I discuss, which does include ambiversion, is what explains it. She's basically inbetween temperaments in both Inclusion (affecting E/I) and Control (affecting S/N), and there have been other people with similar effects in one system who have the same results in the other.

    Just that to me, her hehavior online (which is all I know of) resembles ENFP's more. (Remember Little Linguist?)
    You're forcing me to have to read up on this. William Schultz, who invented Inclusion/Control/Affection, did not believe in typology, he was an anti-typologist. Is his the system that includes ambiversion? There are no dichotomies and it resists labeling people as being ever-changing.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #69
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    The MBTI only claims 75% accuracy.

    What does a function preference test tell you? http://www.humanmetrics.com/cgi-win/jtypes2.asp
    Is humanmetrics actually measuring by functions? It says 33% E, 62% N, 25% T, and 67% P but doesn't list functions. I'm either ENTP or INTP by other function-preference quizzes, but I don't take those to be 100% accurate either It is not just your test that we pick on....

  10. #70
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Is humanmetrics actually measuring by functions? It says 33% E, 62% N, 25% T, and 67% P but doesn't list functions. I'm either ENTP or INTP by other function-preference quizzes, but I don't take those to be 100% accurate either It is not just your test that we pick on....
    Hmm, I was hoping you would explain humanmetrics to me.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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