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  1. #71
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    observe, because the underlying reality is invisible. But while the Aristotelian model is thoroughly discredited, I should note that even though matter is not made up of four elements, it does occur in four states: plasma (fire), solid (earth), gaseous (air), and liquid (water). Coming up with a more precise description doesn't mean that the original description is without merit - it's just that typologies (like zoologies) are a first step in classifying things with enough clarity that one can even begin to talk about them.[/QUOTE]

    Agreed. Up to now, despite having its roots in psychoanalytical theory, in point of descriptives typology has more resembled the structuralism and functionalism in early psychology in many ways, particularly structuralism in its methods. Perhaps now we will see an expedited evolution in description of the theory as it catches up in its use of modern methods.

  2. #72
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    I also think that frequency of use may not mean quality of use unless experience is a must for the situation. He also stuck with only the people who didn't question what type they were. There are probably a lot of mixed up in betweeners out there.
    well, if you are good at something the wiring at that area is highly effective and doesent evoke much activation, but the area is used more frequently. on the other hand, if you really suck at something and are forced to use some region intensely, it may get really active.

    as an example that he used on INTP getting embarrassed, not much activation on t5 normally and it doesent get activated easily, but when it does, it gets really active and the activation even spreads to areas nearby.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  3. #73
    Sweet Ocean Cloud SD45T-2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Southern Kross View Post
    Does this apply only to literal authority figures or also to people they perceive to be an authority on a subject? In other words, do they simply respond to people in charge or do they also respond to those who command more knowledge and/or experience than themselves? Perhaps it is more generally driven by respect...
    For me it's respect. I'm tend to be pretty cynical about people in positions of authority.

    Just in case you're interested: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...s-estjs-3.html
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  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    well, if you are good at something the wiring at that area is highly effective and doesent evoke much activation, but the area is used more frequently. on the other hand, if you really suck at something and are forced to use some region intensely, it may get really active.

    as an example that he used on INTP getting embarrassed, not much activation on t5 normally and it doesent get activated easily, but when it does, it gets really active and the activation even spreads to areas nearby.
    This is typical neural pathway behavior. Neural pathways that are frequently used are like paths worn through grass - the more activity less grass, the easier it is to travel it actively, and when it rains water tends to flow along these worn down areas and stay channeled. When it rains a lot, and water floods over into grass that has not been worn down, the water spreads out everywhere and isn't contained and forms no pattern. This is called generalization in patients having seizures, for example.

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    4 = highest and 1 = lowest

    Region F7 Imaginary Mimic
    4: ESFP, ENTP, ENFP, ESFJ
    3: ESTJ, ISTJ, INTJ, INFJ, INFP, INTP
    2: ESTP, ENFJ, ISTP, ISFP
    1: ENTJ, ISFJ

    Region F8 = Grounded Believer
    4: ESFP, ESTJ, ENTJ, INFJ, ISTJ, INFP
    3: ENFP, ISFP, INTP
    2: ENTP, ESFJ, ENFJ, ISTP, INTJ
    1: ESTP, ISFJ

    Region F3 = Deductive Analyst
    4: ESTP, INTP
    3: ESTJ
    2: ESFJ, ISTJ, ISFJ
    1: ESFP, ENTP, ENFP, ENTJ, ENFJ, INTJ, INFJ, ISTP, ISFP, INFP

    Region F4 = Expert Classifier
    4: ESTP, INTP
    3: none
    2: ESFJ, ENTJ, INFJ
    1: ESFP, ENTP, ENFP, ESTJ, ENFJ, INTJ, ISTJ, ISFJ, ISTP, ISFP, INFP

    Region T3 = Precise Speaker
    4: ENTP, ENTJ, ESFJ, ENFJ, INTJ, INFJ, INFP
    3: ESTP, ESTJ, ISFJ, ISFP, ISTP
    2: ESFP, ENFP, ISTJ, INTP
    1: none

    Region T4 = Intuitive Listener
    4: ESFP, ENFP, INFP
    3: ENTP, ENTJ, ENFJ, ISFJ, INTJ, ISFP
    2: ESTP, ESTJ, ISTJ, INFJ, ISTP
    1: ESFJ, INTP

    Region C3 = Factual Storekeeper
    4: ESTJ, INTP
    3: ESFP, ESFJ, ENTJ
    2: ENFJ, ISFJ, INTJ, INFP
    1: ESTP, ENTP, ENFP, ISTJ, INFJ, ISTP, ISFP

    Region C4 = Flowing Artist
    4: ENFJ, ISFJ
    3: ESFP, ENTP
    2: ENTJ, ESFJ, INFJ, INTP, ISFP, INFP
    1: ENFP, ESTJ, ESTP, ISTJ, INTJ, ISTP

    Region T5 = Sensitive Mediator
    4: ESFJ, ENFJ, ISTJ, ISFJ
    3: ENFP, INFJ
    2: ENTP, ESTJ, ISFP, INTJ, ISTP, INFP
    1: ESTP, ESFP, ENTJ, INTP

    Region T6 = Purposeful Futurist
    4: INTJ, ISFP
    3: ENFP, ESFJ, ENFJ, INFJ, ISTP, INFP
    2: ESTP, ESFP, ENTP, ESTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ, ISFJ, INTP
    1: none

    Region P3 = Tactical Navigator
    4: ISTP
    3: ESTP, ISTJ
    2: ESFP, ENFP, ISFJ, ISFP
    1: ENTP, ESTJ, ENTJ, ESFJ, ENFJ, INTJ, INFJ, INTP, INFP

    Region P4 = Strategic Gamer
    4: ESTP, ENTP, ISTP
    3: none
    2: ENFP, ENTJ, ENFJ, INTJ, INTP
    1: ESFP, ESTJ, ESFJ, ISTJ, ISFJ, INFJ, ISFP, INFP

    Region O1 = Visual Engineer
    4: ESTJ, ENTJ, ISTJ, INTJ, INFJ, ISFP
    3: ESFP, ESFJ, ISFJ, ISTP, INTP
    2: ESTP, ENTP, ENFP, INFP
    1: ENFJ

    Region O2 = Astract Impressionist
    4: ENFP, ISFJ, ISTP, ISFP
    3: ESTP, ENTP, ENTJ, ENFJ, ISTJ, INTJ, INFP
    2: ESFP, ESTJ, INFJ
    1: ESFJ, INTP

    I was typing this up, and then I went to eat dinner. I spent a lot of time putting this together at Starbucks yesterday. It's amazing how similar ESTPs and INTPs are. Nardi says that ESTPs are more geared towards tactical action (he used Mario Kart to simulate this), and I guess INTPs are more inclined to be boring data analysts.

    If there's an error somewhere, let me know.
    When I first read this thread I was like "wow I went and picked out the two sections IFPs use most, and I seem more ISFP than INFP"...reading your list, though, ESFP makes more sense, because I am more inclined to "factual storekeeping" for example.

  6. #76
    Fight For Freedom FFF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    When I first read this thread I was like "wow I went and picked out the two sections IFPs use most, and I seem more ISFP than INFP"...reading your list, though, ESFP makes more sense, because I am more inclined to "factual storekeeping" for example.
    Having made more progress in the book, I see that those are just averages of how much different people of those types used those regions. Some people of the same type had drastically different usage levels.

  7. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by FFF View Post
    Having made more progress in the book, I see that those are just averages of how much different people of those types used those regions. Some people of the same type had drastically different usage levels.
    Here is another example of why the small sample size becomes an issue.

  8. #78
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    Here is another example of why the small sample size becomes an issue.
    True, but I would still tend to look for the "dynamics" of the EEG data, not the aggregate value of the "usages" of particular regions. The latter might be able to help determine type, in a very broad sense, but I think the dynamics might prove to be more specific.

    I can totally see why he published the data, though. It's not conclusive, but DANG, there's a lot of useful info along with the stuff we can rightly be skeptical about.
    An argument is two people sharing their ignorance.

    A discussion is two people sharing their understanding, even when they disagree.

  9. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    True, but I would still tend to look for the "dynamics" of the EEG data, not the aggregate value of the "usages" of particular regions. The latter might be able to help determine type, in a very broad sense, but I think the dynamics might prove to be more specific.

    I can totally see why he published the data, though. It's not conclusive, but DANG, there's a lot of useful info along with the stuff we can rightly be skeptical about.
    Absolutely. In addition to the useful information already produced, what I'm hoping transpires is that all the attention given due to the findings and the book will attract more money and opportunities for him to do revised/more extensive and add-on research.

  10. #80
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    Book arrived today, so now I'll see what all the hoopla is about (looks interesting, from what I can see glancing through it).
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