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  1. #181
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    ^ Yeah, completely agreed with your point.

    I mean, as Nardi says, if you take a middle-aged INTJ, his/her brain tends to looks like an ISFP's more than any other.

    Same goes for ENFP and ESTJ, and on and on (I mean, we've talked about this shit plenty on here, so it's nothing new really).

    Obviously, when he says this, it's the version of our shadow with the same orientation (I/E) that we look more like (i.e., same "dominant loop").

    But for an INTJ, when we have to extrovert, I think that that SFP shadow version will basically just have a more extroverted orientation.

    I've wondered for a long time, and not been able to settle on an answer, whether our shadow is of the same or opposite orientation.

    I've come to think it can probably be either/or, depending on what the situation calls for (more extroverted, or more introverted?).

    I had lunch with someone I hadn't seen since high school the other day, and she remembered me as being "bubbly".

    I thought it was hilarious, cuz I know exactly why she remembers me that way (I'd even thought about it before).

    It's just, if you said that to some other people, they'd be like, "Wtf are you talking about? Him?? Bubbly???"

    The fact of the matter is, when I am comfortable with people, I can almost be bubbly like an ESFP.

    But the occasions when I'm actually like that are pretty few and far between.

    Whereas ESFPs are like that, well, most the damn day.

  2. #182
    Happy Dancer uumlau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    Whereas ESFPs are like that, well, most all the damn day.
    Exactly. It's overall how you spend your time, not any particular snapshot.

    But it's saying something that the tert and inf are just as obvious as the dom and aux, when looking at the snapshots.
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  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by uumlau View Post
    But it's saying something that the tert and inf are just as obvious as the dom and aux, when looking at the snapshots.
    For sure.

    They're just way less conscious.

    (and, ftr, when I made fun of Nardi's collar earlier, it's, in part, because a friend of mine posted a picture of us on facebook recently in which my collar [mine just isn't nearly as large] is similarly fucked up by my jacket. i'm pretty sure SFPs would have the sensory intelligence to realize this, and wear their clothes more sharply. we have the same [albeit less conscious] desire to pull off what they do; we just end up with crooked collars. :P)

  4. #184
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Looks like Nardi borrowed John Travolta's shirt from Saturday Night Fever.

  5. #185

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    I think this is a very good direction in research. Getting away from self-report, the reading of descriptions, and the lexical hypothesis, in general, seem like a good thing.

    However, I am concerned about how small a sample size is being used in there studies. I think heard Nardi say 7 INFPs in that latest video.

    Presumably, like Myers-Briggs, he is still doing a "classification" of some sort based on observations of which of the EEG signal. However, that means sixteen waveforms from which to pick "signals" from to act as a means of classification. People are very good at seeing the patterns they want to see.

    If Nardi picked his EEG classification scheme with no prior knowledge of the data, and then found that the data and classification matched quite well, I would be quite impressed, indeed.

    However, if he looked for patterns that were common to the people sharing particular types in the EEGs, and reported them, this is another thing entirely. Even if there was a thorough leave one out cross-validation, it seems like a classification scheme this complex provides ample opportunity to overfit the data, rather than extracting what is actually predictable from that data.

    @uumlau , @Zarathustra , since both of you are enthusiastic about these developments, and well trained in analyzing data, can you speak to what Nardi actually did in his studies?

    I am guessing it is somewhere between the two extremes I outlined above.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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  6. #186
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    Uumlau will have to answer you on that one. I haven't even read the book.

    From what I can tell, he's not really that far along in the scientific process.

    He's only really making observations and hypotheses at this point.

    Not proving shit beyond the shadow of a doubt.

  7. #187

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    Actually, I just watched the Google Talk, and he said what he was reporting was a "pilot study" run over 5 years, and in the next steps he is looking at trying to collect a lot more data on people by creating a wireless version that a lot of people can wear.

    When, I listened to his actual conclusions and how he reached them, I am rather satisfied with how he is exploring things. I've generally liked Dario Nardi's research efforts. Like Martin Seligman on Positive Psychology years back, I think he is taking steps to make sure he isn't fooling himself...even if they aren't "definitive" experiments, yet.

    Certainly, proving to typology skeptics that the conclusions are real are a long way off. But some of the things I noted were that his patterns are not nearly as complicated as I imagined them to be, and his conclusions not as cut-and-dry as I imagined after I read the first post in this thread. Simplicity and probabilistic forms of statements are both pluses, when compared to complexity and definiteness, from my point of view, when dealing with small sample sizes.

    Accept the past. Live for the present. Look forward to the future.
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    "[A] scientist looking at nonscientific problems is just as dumb as the next guy." Richard Feynman
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  8. #188
    Administrator highlander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post

    Yeah, I've noticed this about his clothes (in the Google video too).

    He's clearly tapping into that inferior Se. And it's clearly inferior.

    Gotta love that collar stickin out one side...
    When I was in my 20s and working in Northern California, I wore hawaiian shirts most days at work. I also had a "lucky" fleece jacket thing that I wore all the time too. There was one guy who tended to not wear shoes and a woman that wore sort of outlandish stuff, so I didn't think it was horribly out of the norm to be a bit different. With my present job, I have to dress relatively conservatively, so that rubs off into what I wear on a daily basis otherwise.

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  9. #189
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    What next? The neuro science of homeopathy? Or perhaps the neuro science of star signs?

    Mary Baker Eddy tried this American weeze in 1879 with Christian Science and Jesus Christ, Scientist. Of course today it would be Jesus Christ, Neuro Scientist.

    And so we have the Typologist as Neuro Scientist.

  10. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    What next? The neuro science of homeopathy? Or perhaps the neuro science of star signs?

    Mary Baker Eddy tried this American weeze in 1879 with Christian Science and Jesus Christ, Scientist. Of course today it would be Jesus Christ, Neuro Scientist.

    And so we have the Typologist as Neuro Scientist.
    So what do you think about Ne dominants displaying the christmas tree pattern on the EEG?

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