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  1. #151
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AffirmitiveAnxiety View Post
    Dario Nardi is clearly the most brilliant and insightful individual to ever lift the lack of clarity on typology since it's creation.
    Now you're trying too hard.

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I wasn't being serious, I was trying to be tongue-in-cheek - joke fail on my part.
    It seems to be a common misunderstanding of the type that we disregard data.
    Actually, we hoard it. And we examine enough of it to know that all that glitters is not gold.

    I do think there's enough in there to spark further examination, do you not agree?
    I don't know. I'm still in the dark. I was hoping Seymour would shed some light, but he appears disinclined to do so.
    I do think it's false advertising to call this "neuroscience".
    There are so many problems with Nardi's work. It would be great if a genuine neuroscientist, (or just someone with a bit of rigour) repeated it. But that's unlikely to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  2. #152
    Wake, See, Sing, Dance Cellmold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    Now you're trying too hard.
    That Dario Nardi, he's a bit of a bright one.

    'One of (Lucas) Cranach's masterpieces, discussed by (Joseph) Koerner, is in it's self-referentiality the perfect expression of left-hemisphere emptiness and a precursor of post-modernism. There is no longer anything to point to beyond, nothing Other, so it points pointlessly to itself.' - Iain McGilChrist

    Suppose a tree fell down, Pooh, when we were underneath it?"
    "Suppose it didn't," said Pooh, after careful thought.
    Piglet was comforted by this.
    - A.A. Milne.

  3. #153
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    I can't believe I did not hear about this sooner. I guess the rock I crawled out from has soundproofing. Here I was spouting off Thomson's work and this seems much more specialised.

  4. #154
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folderol View Post
    Did you know the brain mappings Nardi did involved injecting stuff into the subject's scalps first? I don't want to deal with needles! It was necessary too, to amplify the electrical signals in the brain to get more accurate results. And he didn't even probe stuff deeper in the brain. Imagine the pain (or huge needles) needed for that! Actually, I don't want to imagine!

    Did you watch the video on youtube where he talks about it? Being as he's a professor, somewhere (California? You can look it up), I would say maybe try to volunteer yourself as a human test subject for any of his further experiments. It's obvious he'll be going in the direction of MBTI regardless. Another way is what if you appeal to the doctor's intellectual side? You could also just tell that it's your money and you are curious (shut up and take my money).
    I need to start stalking Dario Nardi.... I am SO dying to have my brain scanned. Having a needle stuck deep into my brain sounds like something I might like also.

    I can't believe this study has so few people considering the size of the "MBTI community"; I imagine many of us would love to be a part of something like that. Unless people DID have to pay for a course or something (his "workshops" are ridiculous.... around $1300 for 3 days! ).
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

    INFP | 4w5 sp/sx | RLUEI - Primary Inquisitive | Tritype is tripe

  5. #155
    meh Salomé's Avatar
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    ^MBTI isn't science. It's a money-making racket. His sample wasn't tiny because he couldn't find enough volunteers, it's because he had to spend a couple of hours with each person. And too much of that might cut into his "lecture circuit" time.
    I wonder how much Google paid him to tell them nothing they didn't already know?
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivy View Post
    Gosh, the world looks so small from up here on my high horse of menstruation.

  6. #156
    Member Folderol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    I need to start stalking Dario Nardi.... I am SO dying to have my brain scanned. Having a needle stuck deep into my brain sounds like something I might like also.

    I can't believe this study has so few people considering the size of the "MBTI community"; I imagine many of us would love to be a part of something like that. Unless people DID have to pay for a course or something (his "workshops" are ridiculous.... around $1300 for 3 days! ).
    It wasn't really scanned, it was with electrodes attached to their head and then he interpreted and averaged the results he got. I know what you mean though. And as he said in the video, if he is going to be drawing conclusions from typology, then those types better be correct (or as correct as possible). This means that all of the subjects went deep into typology and were sure of their type. This probably included more than just reading shit on the internet LOL (though one could make a devil's advocate case for it pretty easily). Also, we need to remember that all of his test subjects had to be physically present, in order to do his tests. Plus he needed to make sure that they were sure as well in some way to verify the first point I said. Perhaps he would have liked to expand the pool size, but that was a consideration. Another thing is data consistency - if he looks for more subjects, I would assume he would like to mirror that in all areas (not like "Well I am testing 6 INTPs, meanwhile the rest of the types get only "3 or "I have 4 ESTP, 6 INFJ, 7 INTJ", etc) - with this in mind, it means that he cannot simply add ONE subject to the test. He would at a minimum need to add 16! Multiples of 16! And when you consider that analyzing all of the data took a long time to begin with that is nuts.

    Like all colleges, workshops, etc that are extremely expensive, my opinion is you are not paying for knowledge, you are paying for the time to interact with somebody knowledgeable, especially in the physical realm taking place in (prestigious place or whatnot and the reputation it holds > this can transfer to the person speaking putting them in higher esteem). I see it akin to designer clothing (REAL designer clothing, not oh these jeans have a name I don't recognize and are more expensive than other things, therefore they are brand name].

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé View Post
    ^MBTI isn't science. It's a money-making racket. His sample wasn't tiny because he couldn't find enough volunteers, it's because he had to spend a couple of hours with each person. And too much of that might cut into his "lecture circuit" time.
    I wonder how much Google paid him to tell them nothing they didn't already know?
    Daaaaaaaamn you are cynical. Gimme a break. First of all, where did you find evidence of his "lecture circuit" attitude? I want specifics. If you have them then I might change my opinion on the spot. So far I didn't see it as that though. I will give you that the one where he talks about the book referenced in this subject's title is a bit of an ad/self promotion, but how else can he talk about something he has done/his own area of expertise without it being that at all? See, I see the expensive lectures as a kind of service... he knows some people might want to pay for it regardless of cost, and he knows he needs money to run tests, so why not give out classes? (even if it's not what he would prefer to do). (And on a side note, what do you see that kind of reasoning as, the previous sentence? They feel like it's Fi, "I can see how it would make sense with what I value, like how I can explain it into a system that I would value, and how that would translate to somebody else still, therefore it may be true", but at the same time, I think I am more of an INTP because that kind of logic seems idealized "x, y, and z are true (assuming a perfect universe and ideal conditions). I just cannot distill it further between the two - I'll probably make a separate topic on that though, but about this one instance, fi you want to reply anyways you can just PM me)

  7. #157
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folderol View Post
    Daaaaaaaamn you are cynical. Gimme a break. First of all, where did you find evidence of his "lecture circuit" attitude? I want specifics. If you have them then I might change my opinion on the spot. So far I didn't see it as that though.
    Salomé did not use the word "attitude," she used the word "time."
    Read her sentence. Again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Salomé
    And too much of that might cut into his "lecture circuit" time.

  8. #158
    Don't pet me. JAVO's Avatar
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    Interesting research! I haven't read the book or even listened to the talk yet, but glancing over his slides, it looks very intriguing.

    At first glance, a few things stand out, which are mostly effects of low budget and little experience and training with EEG.

    1. Skull caps appear to have been used. They're easier to use, but the results obtained are not as accurate or precise as when the electrodes are placed individually on the scalp.

    2. It's good that he used the standard 10-20 electrode configuration, but he really needs more electrodes since his focus is localizing signals in the brain. These also help eliminate signal artifacts from things like eye movement.

    3. Since I haven't dug into the details yet, I'm not sure what montage (electrode comparison method) was used. I assume it was some type of average reference, but a Laplacian montage seems like it would be more suited for his location-related research. (But the minimal number of electrodes used makes that challenging.)

    4. I hope the software he used was able to somewhat filter out eye movement artifacts, otherwise we might be seeing a correlation of type functions with certain less obvious eye movements in the Fp electrodes. (Using more electrodes would help with this too.)

  9. #159
    Member Folderol's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    Salomé did not use the word "attitude," she used the word "time."
    Read her sentence. Again.
    I read it fully the first time. I got the impression that she said he was most concerned with expensive running lectures from non science to make money. Given that it's about money then, what about his attitude (way he presents himself, something you say/read), points to the fact that he does lots of lectures?

  10. #160
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Folderol View Post
    I read it fully the first time.
    Then you chose to purposely misquote and demand something from her you are not entitled to.
    Go do your own research on Nardi. It's not anyone's job to do yours.

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