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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimane View Post
    I think lenores works compliments nardis
    If you go to personalitypathways you'll see she talks about how the four quadrants arent really where the functions are located but the part of the brain needed for the process to take place.
    No front left hemisphere no extraverted judgement etc
    I agree with the sentiment that the research in Thompson's book is complimentary, mainly due to the methodology - it used PET scans so it is completely different. I talked about it in a different thread (not sure how to link to it though, so I'll just cut a snippet.)

    Quote Originally Posted by mia_infp View Post
    Nardi is FABULOUS stuff! Love love love it. I disagree that it completely invalidates Thompson/Niednagel's work, though. They are fundamentally different.

    Thompson/Niednagel’s research involved PET scans and acknowledged that the loci were generalizations and in no way meant the process was completely understood or limited to what was found. She was simply indicating what was found in the imaging results. She readily acquiesced that the brain is extremely complex, and many processes – math for example – require and operate more efficiently using both sides of the brain together.

    I view it as just another piece of research that shouldn’t be thrown out until we find its place in the puzzle – especially given this research revolved around PET scans, and Nardi’s focused heavily on EEG readings, which are completely different animals. During a neuropsych evaluation for epilepsy surgery for example, both are used – because they provide radically different information on what the brain is doing regarding the seizure activity/behavior. PET measures energy use and EEG measures electrical output. You need both to get a more complete picture.

    Nardi found using EEG that dominant judging personality types tend to use the left prefrontal cortex while perceiving personality types tend to use the right prefrontal cortex. Just because Nardi’s work shows this doesn’t mean there isn’t heavy energy use going on in the back left brain during Si or Ni as well.

    Neither of these studies has been replicated. Neither has been peer-reviewed (that I know of – if I’m mistaken that would be great to know - perhaps Nardi has been reviewed recently). However, just because it hasn’t been reviewed doesn’t mean it is invalid. And while extremely interesting, there are limits to both. Good science would hesitate before throwing anything out.

  2. #102

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    ^^^ agree
    plus Dario conducted his research in terms of *types* and the patterns of cognition they're inclined to use. So he selected several people of each type preference and asked them questions or gave them tasks and then showed which areas of the brain were implicated in the pattern of response that occurred. where as Thompson was looking at the areas of the brain engaged by a single function-attitude.

  3. #103
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Wow; that's a lot. Don't know how exactly it affects Lenore's theory.
    (should point out, I've been attributing it to Lenore, but she, as well as Mark Bruzon (Page now archived: http://web.archive.org/web/200907291..._functions.htm) use the same theory, and got it from somewhere else. Forget who, but it doesn't seem to be Benziger or Herrmann, who are mentioned as having competing theories).

    Here's what I've gathered so far:

    ESTP Fp2 F3 F4 P4
    ESFP Fp2 F7 F8 T4
    ISTJ FP2 F8 T5 O1
    ISFJ Fp2 C4 T5 O2
    ENTP Fp2 F7 T3 P4
    ENFP Fp2 F7 T4 O2
    INTJ Fp2 T3 T6 O1
    INFJ Fp2 F8 T3 O1
    ESTJ Fp1 F8 C3 O1
    ENTJ Fp1 F8 T3 O1
    ISTP Fp1 P3 O2 P4
    INTP Fp1 F3 F4 C3
    ESFJ Fp1 F7 T5 T3
    ENFJ Fp1 T3 C4 T5
    ISFP Fp1 O1 O2 T6
    INFP Fp1 F8 T3 T4

    correlational patterns
    Fp2 irrational types
    Fp1 rational types
    F7 Get Things Going (ESF/ENP. Here we have a mapping to an Interaction Style. Surprised Nardi didn't mention this)
    F8 "pure" temperaments, (ISTJ-Melancholy, ENTJ-Choleric, ESFP-Sanguine, INFP-Supine) plus INFJ (MelSup) and ESTJ (ChlorMel)

    These are less of a pattern:
    P4 SanChlor mixes (ExTP) and ISTP (MelSan)

    T4 ExFP, INFP
    T5 ISxJ ExFJ [both SFJ's]
    F3, F4 ESTP, INTP
    C4 ISFJ ENFJ
    T6 INTJ, ISFP ("Supplements" <Type Logic)
    T3 ENTP, NTJs, EFJ, INFs
    O1 All TJ's, INFJ, ISFP
    O2 ISP, ISFJ, ENFP
    C3 INTP, ESTJ
    P3 ISTP

    Have to look next at the second list, "High-Mid".
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  4. #104
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Wow; that's a lot. Don't know how exactly it affects Lenore's theory.
    (should point out, I've been attributing it to Lenore, but she, as well as Mark Bruzon (Page now archived: http://web.archive.org/web/200907291..._functions.htm) use the same theory, and got it from somewhere else. Forget who, but it doesn't seem to be Benziger or Herrmann, who are mentioned as having competing theories).
    Thomson ascribes it to Neidnagel, whose book certainly lacks any kind of detail or description of methodology. He may have done real research, but he fails to pass on much information about it.

    Nardi says of Benziger's model "Her work appears to be based on reading and other second-hand sources; most unfortunately, the brain is not organized in the way her model describes." Of Hermann "... the brain is not so broadly organized, and personality type strongly influences one's whole-brain states." And on those models in general "the brain is not a barber-shop quartet. It is a subtle and complex sympathetic orchestra that dizzies the imagination" (all p161). In person, I recall he described such models verbally as "cute but not accurate."

    Those statements may be a bit strong, but certainly the data he resorts doesn't seem to back up the other models. It's arguable that such models are accurate deeper in the brain, but even that seems a stretch to me.

  5. #105
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    Thanks.
    That's the book they based that theory on? A book on sports success? I thought it would have been something much more scholarly.
    (I just read Nardi's reference to Benziger and Herrmann today).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  6. #106
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Thanks.
    That's the book they based that theory on? A book on sports success? I thought it would have been something much more scholarly.
    (I just read Nardi's reference to Benziger and Herrmann today).
    That's who Thomson references (Neidnagel the person, not necessarily the book). No idea on the others.

  7. #107
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    OK; I guess he has more than just that book. The site is http://braintypes.com/what-is-brain-typing/

    (Also, had to really search around to learn that "C" (the region considered part of the "Parietal" area) stood for "Central".)
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seymour View Post
    Thomson ascribes it to Neidnagel, whose book certainly lacks any kind of detail or description of methodology. He may have done real research, but he fails to pass on much information about it.
    Would you trust a guy with this haircut?


  9. #109
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    It seems based on this brain research that Ni mysticism is in actuality a natural neurological process though how this gives one what we call extrasensory perception is a mystery we have yet to unravel.

  10. #110
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    OMG this is so epically awesome right after I wrote the post above this one Nardi's book just arrived in the mail. Sweet! Now I can definitively figure out what type I am once and for all, and perhaps even be able to more accurately type others.

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