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  1. #51
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Since you're decided only on I and F, and the blends between Melancholy and Supine would happen to be the IFJ's, then how's either ISFJ or INFJ?

    (And if you weigh between Mebahcoly and Supine in both of those areas, then what lies between them in this system is Melancholy Phlegmatic and Supine Phlegmatic, which I've mentioned to RevilsZero, above. That might sound like they lie between those temperaments and Phlegmatic, but in this system, Phlegmatic is the one that is between everything, so a blend of
    Phlegmatic with the other temperaments indicates a moderate scale lying between adjacent temperaments). Here again is the map of the whole thing:

    Whoa, that's an elaborate chart...

    Your guess seems coherent with the feedback I've received lately... People tell me I have "a lot of Fe". I'll keep my options open, though...

    "Cautious association" sounds about right, though it might be just my shrinking violet tendencies.

    Frankly, Supine kinda sounds like an unhealthy version of some other temperament... Being submissive and dependant are usually strong signs of insecurity, no?

  2. #52
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I guess FIRO and APS do possibly overemphasize that "dependency" stuff a bit (And APS adds the "submissiveness"), which is not a common trait in many other personality theories. (Especially those with only four temperaments, where the calm Phlegmatic ends up as the closest one to this). But the root of it is the high want coupled with low expression, however that manifests.

    So it then looks like just a matter of determining S/N for you.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  3. #53
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    I really like that it adds the Dependent-Independent conflict. It's one of the main things I see for myself in Sanguine.

  4. #54
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I suppose it's possible I could have misidentified my temperament. It's possible I could be phlegmatic or normal melancholy in inclusion, but I seem too reclusive for that. Sometimes I even dread social interaction because I usually don't particularly enjoy it. On the other hand, I often do want people to approach me and will be friendly when they do, but that's probably because of my supine affection. If I'm busy or have something else I was planning on doing, I generally don't want to be bothered.
    I think my supine especially tempers this, because I do want people to approach me (unless I'm not in the mood), and that could have made it look more like phlegmatic, since I don't really mind who approaches me or wants to be friend, I can "take 'em or leave 'em".
    What I'm seeing there looks very in between in the social area, which would fit Phlegmatic. Sometimes you want people, sometimes you don't.

    This would not be from Affection, because remember, you have to get past Inclusion first to get to Affection.

    In the FIRO theory, (here translated to APS temperament), Melancholies in Inclusion who are Sanguine in Affection are called "Affectionate Homebodies", and Cholerics in Inclusion with Supine in Affection are "Have Your Cake and Eat it Too". You can even get an idea of what I'm describing here from these names!
    Both combos have a low wanted Inclusion which carries an "exclusive club" mentality that people must meet a criteria to enter.
    And both also have a high wanted Affection, which wants to be open with people in relationships.

    Yet neither wants more people than their Inclusion temperament normally does because of this. The temperaments do modify each other across the areas, but only in certain ways. So both combos are described as using their Inclusion to select the few people they will then want to have an open deep relationship with. What it means is that they will be very aloof on the social level, but then more open and even needy toward those they do choose to associate with.

    What you're describing appears to lie entirely in the Inclusion area, and it looks like an ambivalence, which would fit Phlegmatic.

    One way in which the temperaments do modify each other for me, as that even as a Supine in Inclusion, I can feel like not being bothered with people when I'm in Control mode, trying to meet a goal, and wanting no interference. Like even trying to keep up on my daily internet circuit or other projects on the computer, and neglecting both Inclusion and Affection needs though other people. I don't think the Affection will influence the Inclusion that strongly, unless your Affection need is sorely lacking, so then you go searching for people (against your Inclusion need) to meet the Affection need.
    One way Affection is described as influencing Inclusion for a person who is Melancholy in both areas, is that they will choose a large impersonal group over a small, but more personal group, because the larger group actually meets their Affection need more than the smaller group would meet their Inclusion need, and the Affection need is more important to the person.

    I think I misinterpreted that chart that says melancholy is "everyone OUT except for exclusive club". I didn't think that fit me because it sounds mean, like I'll forcefully push people out or not include them, but I don't think that's really what it's like.
    No, those are not to be taken too literally. I guess that table is not really good to try to fit onesself off of, but then it wasn't really designed to do that; it was to give a rough idea of the general attitude of our needs.
    One doesn't have to meanly tell others "OUT". You just don't respond much to their approach. You would rather be left alone, unless they meet a criteria for inclusion.

    I think melancholys (at least when mixed with phlegmatic and supine) don't necessarily exclude people, they just don't approach people and don't always like being approached.
    Well, a pure Melancholy, and especially a Compulsive Melancholy, it would be more than just "don't always like being approached". They for the most part usually don't. In the FIRO concept, this was considered a form of "exclusion". Like with MBTI concepts, you can't be overly literal with these things, and there are exceptions and mitigating circumstances, of course.

    If you 'don't always' like being approached, (but do sometimes), then that sounds like a moderate wanted Inclusion. So if you're particularly low in expression, that could be Melancholy Phlegmatic or even Supine Phlegmatic as well.
    http://www.pastoral-counseling-cente...-inclusion.htm
    http://www.pastoral-counseling-cente...-inclusion.htm

    When I read the control descriptions, the one that seemed to fit me best was melancholy-phlegmatic, but I assume that the melancholy flavor comes from the melancholy in my inclusion area, so I could easily be pure phlegmatic for control. It actually makes quite a bit of sense, because when I'm in charge, I don't like to be the one making decisions, I like to get other people's opinions and have sort of a democracy.
    Again, I have that same tendency, but recognize it as the influence of Supine in Inclusion and Choleric in Control. I end up torn, because I do want to make decisions, but have a hard time accepting the rejection from others for stepping on their toes. (I see this has created a glass ceiling for me on the job, where the only promotions are to supervisory positions, and in this particular environment, I don't think I can "play" people enough. Most supervisors down here are ISTJ pure Melancholy, who don't care what you think, at least on the surface).

    I gave a good specific description of this dynamic, right above in post 39: http://www.typologycentral.com/forum...=1#post1672795

    I just took that Helen Fisher test and got Negotiator-Builder.
    That would go along with some sort of Phlegmatic Melancholy combo.

    By the way, how could I tell whether I'm melancholy or melancholy-compulsive? It seems like melancholy-compulsive is a more extreme version, but how extreme does it have to be to qualify as that?
    Yeah, these profiles do not really make the difference that clear. It does briefly define it as
    "Note: 'Compulsive' means that this person tends to try to get this need met at any cost -- even when it is to his/her disadvantage to do so."

    So somebody like that is not likely going to have the apparent ambivalence in wanted Inclusion that you seem to indicate.
    Thanks for taking the time to explain this! I think I'm probably melancholy-phlegmatic in inclusion, then. For control, melancholy-phlegmatic and supine-phlegmatic fit best, better than pure phlegmatic, so I'm not sure what to go with there.

  5. #55
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Just curious; how sure of INTP are you? I take it your cognitive results are from the Timeless test (Rather than Nardi Keys 2 cognition). I see Fi is high too. Do you think you could possibly be F?
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  6. #56
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Just curious; how sure of INTP are you? I take it your cognitive results are from the Timeless test (Rather than Nardi Keys 2 cognition). I see Fi is high too. Do you think you could possibly be F?
    I was originally typed as INFP 4w5, then I changed my type to INFP 5w4, then INTP 5w4, and now INTP 4w5. At this point, I feel pretty confident that I have the right type, but I could say the same for when I was each of the other types. I'm pretty sure I'm an INTP because I Ti-analyze everything, and even when it seems like I'm using Fi, I believe it's still Ti. The two functions can mimic one another, so Ti can easily look like Fi when dealing with values. Anyways, the difference is that I detach to analyze objectively, and that's what makes me an INTP. Still, I seem very much like an INFP because of my enneagram type, so I suppose I'm somewhat of a thinking/feeling hybrid.

  7. #57
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    I was originally typed as INFP 4w5, then I changed my type to INFP 5w4, then INTP 5w4, and now INTP 4w5. At this point, I feel pretty confident that I have the right type, but I could say the same for when I was each of the other types. I'm pretty sure I'm an INTP because I Ti-analyze everything, and even when it seems like I'm using Fi, I believe it's still Ti. The two functions can mimic one another, so Ti can easily look like Fi when dealing with values. Anyways, the difference is that I detach to analyze objectively, and that's what makes me an INTP. Still, I seem very much like an INFP because of my enneagram type, so I suppose I'm somewhat of a thinking/feeling hybrid.
    http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=32:32
    - Fours and Fives can easily be mistyped by others, and Fives, especially with the Four wing, sometimes mistype as Fours. Such Fives recognize that they have strong emotions and don't identify with the often extremely cerebral portrait of type Five. But, Fives, unlike Fours, always retain some degree of discomfort when it comes to the experience and expression of their emotional states. Fives tend to fear emotional overwhelm; Fours to welcome it. -
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #58
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    http://www.ocean-moonshine.net/e1428...position=32:32
    - Fours and Fives can easily be mistyped by others, and Fives, especially with the Four wing, sometimes mistype as Fours. Such Fives recognize that they have strong emotions and don't identify with the often extremely cerebral portrait of type Five. But, Fives, unlike Fours, always retain some degree of discomfort when it comes to the experience and expression of their emotional states. Fives tend to fear emotional overwhelm; Fours to welcome it. -
    I definitely welcome my emotions, and I often find myself trying to intensify my feelings by listening to music that reflects my emotional state. I like my emotions and certainly don't fear them, though I'm bad at expressing them. Here's a post I wrote in another thread yesterday:

    I'm an INTP 4w5, which I guess is an odd combination. I probably seem like an INTP on the outside, but feel like a 4w5 on the inside. My INTP-ness, as well as being Sx-last, serves to temper the 4's drama, and as a result, I don't seem to have any of that stereotypical melodrama and expressiveness of a 4. But at the same time, I can be very sentimental, and I'm drawn to emotional intensity, especially in music and films. I also like an artistic output, and often find myself treating clothing as a form of self-expression. I dress to match my specific mood, as well as to show the world who I am. Because of this and my hidden sentimentality, I often seem like an INFP.

    I don't think this combination causes problems for me. I like being an oddball--I get to be unique. I also feel like I get the best of both worlds--logic and emotionality. But I guess there is one downside, and it's that I'm restricted in my ability to express my emotions compared with most 4's.

  9. #59
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    How about INFJ then? (Even though Fe seems to be low in your signature. But it would have trtiary Ti, which could be quite strong). I believe that type often comes out as a 4-5 combo as well.

    Almost missed this one:
    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I really like that it adds the Dependent-Independent conflict. It's one of the main things I see for myself in Sanguine.
    Well, if you identify with the D-I confliect (which is also known as the "Sanguine swing"), then maybe you really are SP.

    You just did seem to fit ENFP so well, from what I've heard of them. Or maybe, I'm just nost accustomed to conversing with an SFP so much (me and those types usually go right past each other).

    Again, striking that LL is also wearing ESFP now. And shortnsweet, who seemed so ESFP has gone ENFP.

    Like "musical types"!

  10. #60
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    How about INFJ then? (Even though Fe seems to be low in your signature. But it would have trtiary Ti, which could be quite strong). I believe that type often comes out as a 4-5 combo as well.
    I don't think INFJ is possible since I have unused Ni and relatively low Fe based on every test I've taken. INFP is a slight possibility, but I'm most likely INTP.

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