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  1. #21
    Senior Member amerellis's Avatar
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    As impossible as it seems, and would appear to be all the more reason for people to think I don't know what I am talking about, I think I my type might have changed from ESTJ to INFJ, which despite being extremely different types, are actually close in proximity to one another.
    Here's a more recent video of myself. Does anybody else notice a difference?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xwY1i6eG3c

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amerellis View Post
    As impossible as it seems, and would appear to be all the more reason for people to think I don't know what I am talking about, I think I my type might have changed from ESTJ to INFJ, which despite being extremely different types, are actually close in proximity to one another.
    Here's a more recent video of myself. Does anybody else notice a difference?
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xwY1i6eG3c
    how you perceive yourself as changes, if you rely on your persona(google what it means if you dont know) too much and change persona. Itsnot your type that has changed. also relating to tert/inferior at some points of life, might make it seem as if you changed type. if you have active inferior, but restrict it much with dom(assuming you are INFP) would make Te + Fi look like Ti, same can happen with aux/tert. and you might relate to these illusionary functions etc etc. The bottom line is that your type doesent change, but how you perceive yourself as changes and how you use your functions changes.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  3. #23
    Senior Member amerellis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    how you perceive yourself as changes, if you rely on your persona(google what it means if you dont know) too much and change persona. Itsnot your type that has changed. also relating to tert/inferior at some points of life, might make it seem as if you changed type. if you have active inferior, but restrict it much with dom(assuming you are INFP) would make Te + Fi look like Ti, same can happen with aux/tert. and you might relate to these illusionary functions etc etc. The bottom line is that your type doesent change, but how you perceive yourself as changes and how you use your functions changes.
    Yes but how do you know that type is impossible to change? forgive me but that seems like the type of ignorant statement that is later found laughable, like saying South America and Africa were never once joined, or that the earth is flat.
    Considering how elatsic and changeable the mind is, I don't think it seems impossible at all.

  4. #24
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    you mostly think of functions in terms of energy. like modules. switching modules or the route of information flow from module to module seems to be something that should be considered. i agree. in the world of energy flow people change their momentary configuration all the time. which creates different results. but from a perspective of evaluating the contents of the resulting intelligence, these results have a different quality. this can easily be observed. i will later write about how that comes about. and strictly from an simple darwinistic perspective, it seems desirable that the highest overall quality is preferred most of the time. individuals should also adapt to situation, but in a society the quality of an individuals result will determine the social situation that manifests, so most of the time, choosing the configuration of functions, which brings about the highest quality, will be more desirable than adapting the configuration to meet external requirements. if you understand functions in terms of their internal logic (workings), you may find that there is a structure in this logic, which creates a vertical stacking of references. those are stages of development, and they consist of content, meaning experience, and the way this has been ordered. so a function is a line of developement, a building up of complexity, the education of which requires years and results in higher quality of the content. both judgement and perception create an inner world using differentiation. over time educated perception can perceive or imagine objects, that used to be invisible and impossible. these objects consist of other objects like three dimensions consist of two dimensions. this is what i call vertical reference or order. for most observers, the order of stages could more easily be seen in ethical or strategical reasoning (F or T), but vertical structure is just as essential in perception. therefore it seems insanely wasteful to abandon achieved vertical order of one line and start anew somewhere else, just to quickly adapt to a different external situation. it will result in lesser vertical quality. so instead we simply add new lines of intelligence, to the one's that we have educated so far, or differentiated as carl jung calls it. our subjective focus may to some degree move on to the new line, but the previous line won't go out of development, because it's development is never finished. study of lines of intelligence proofs that differentiation is always possible, like moving on through a fractal. the order in which we choose the lines (functions) that come next, as it is pointed out in common mbti circles, is just wrong. it's a different order. and it perfectly explains your subjective experience so far. it's all part of your type. it's natural development. the type is defined by it's history. it's point of starting out in differentiation. this is what makes a person unique. and the type.

  5. #25
    Senior Member amerellis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    you mostly think of functions in terms of energy. like modules. switching modules or the route of information flow from module to module seems to be something that should be considered. i agree. in the world of energy flow people change their momentary configuration all the time. which creates different results. but from a perspective of evaluating the contents of the resulting intelligence, these results have a different quality. this can easily be observed. i will later write about how that comes about. and strictly from an simple darwinistic perspective, it seems desirable that the highest overall quality is preferred most of the time. individuals should also adapt to situation, but in a society the quality of an individuals result will determine the social situation that manifests, so most of the time, choosing the configuration of functions, which brings about the highest quality, will be more desirable than adapting the configuration to meet external requirements. if you understand functions in terms of their internal logic (workings), you may find that there is a structure in this logic, which creates a vertical stacking of references. those are stages of development, and they consist of content, meaning experience, and the way this has been ordered. so a function is a line of developement, a building up of complexity, the education of which requires years and results in higher quality of the content. both judgement and perception create an inner world using differentiation. over time educated perception can perceive or imagine objects, that used to be invisible and impossible. these objects consist of other objects like three dimensions consist of two dimensions. this is what i call vertical reference or order. for most, the order of stages can more easily be seen in ethical or strategical reasoning (F or T), but it's just as essential in perception. therefore it seems insane to abandon achieved vertical order of one line and start anew somewhere else, just to quickly adapt to a different external situation. it will result in lesser vertical quality. so instead we simply add new lines of intelligence, to the one's that we have educated so far, or differentiated as carl jung calls it. our subjective focus may to some degree move on to the new line, but the previous line won't go out of development, because it's development is never finished. study of lines of intelligence proofs that differentiation is always possible, like moving on through a fractal. so the order in which we choose the lines (functions) that come next, as it is pointed out in common mbti circles, is just wrong. it's a different order. and it perfectly explains your subjective experience so far. it's all part of your type. it's natural development. the type is defined by it's history. it's point of starting out in differentiation. this is what makes a person unique. and the type.
    I'm not sure I totally got your explanation but . . . Thanks for agreeing with me!

  6. #26
    a scream in a vortex nanook's Avatar
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    another very significant aspect is compatibility of lines, in terms of their content. initially lines seem to contradict each other in their internal language, so jumping from one line to a specifically opposed other line would change your view in such a categorical way that only confusion is achieved, which results in powerlessness. not desirable for a self in the world. therefore, if one line becomes conscious, the opposite energy has to be protected from consciousness by becoming unconscious, so that it can't be dominated and repressed by the conscious line, but so that it remains active in live, in terms of it's energy, albeit undifferentiated. it's needed for us to 'realize' each other. so we don't loose all respect for someone, who consciously uses the opposite lines. but on higher stages of development, lines become compatible, due to their differentiation an the resulting internal flexibility. contradictions of ethics and strategy become a non issue, for example, just like - eventually, even later - contradictions of Ni and Se. so this is why vertical development of the contents of a functions is as important, as conquering new functions. it's a requirement, for the integration of new functions into a coherently functional whole. so development of one line, the first line, can't just be abandoned for no life threatening reason, for the sake of preferring another function, because that would threaten and sabotage the whole development. but there are periods, where one line may repress another lines, due to incompatibility of content. happens all the time, in transitory moments of development. but it's just periods. the whole self struggles to save every line, for sure.

  7. #27
    Senior Member amerellis's Avatar
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    @nanook : I don't use Ne anymore. Sorry, it's not making sense to me.

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  9. #29
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by amerellis View Post
    Yes but how do you know that type is impossible to change? forgive me but that seems like the type of ignorant statement that is later found laughable, like saying South America and Africa were never once joined, or that the earth is flat.
    Considering how elatsic and changeable the mind is, I don't think it seems impossible at all.
    evidence shows that that there is only small variation in personality over time, the core self stays the same, but grows. also evidence shows that personality has alot to do with genes and like with anything with genetic background, the genes adapt to environment. and like with any adaptation, you can only adapt to things as much as physically possible. think these genes as water and you need to fill bottles with it. if you have 0.5l of water, you cant fill a 1l bottle with it and if you got 1.5l of water, you cant fit it all in 1l bottle. and remember that its not one gene for personality, its many bottles and different waters.

    Yes the mind is able to adapt, but only as much as the genes allow. one thing also is that psyche is able to adapt situations by using different functions on it. remember that everyone has all 4 T F S and N functions and there is alot more to I E than just either to internal world and to external world.

    What comes to that personality changing and genes, its not just my idea, that stuff is teached on the first personality psychology course in universities(at least if they got good teachers).
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  10. #30
    Senior Member amerellis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nanook View Post
    uhm. you want another shot?
    of your explanation? o no thanks I'm good. Or did you mean at being typed?

    @INTP : mmhmm. so basically you are claiming that your MBTI is genetic. I disagree.
    And yah can't prove me wrong too cause have they found the MBTI gene? Well have they! Didn't think so. :p

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