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  1. #31
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Jesus christ. Two walls of text in one day? I'm becoming one of those fucking people.

    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  2. #32
    ThatGirl
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    Understood. That Te-Se loop can be a motherfucker. It's like Te says "OH SHIT! THIS IS IT!!!" and the Se part goes, "FUCK YEAH, BRAH! LETS DO IT!" and then you're like mid-action when Fi pricks up like, "Guys, somethings not right here..." and then it's like the very second you've completed the action that little nagging Ni-voice at the back of your mind finally comes in clear enough for you to hear "Yeah, you've managed to fuck yourself in like five moves. Nice job, jackass." Creative backtracking ensues.
    Lol couldn't have said it better myself.

    I don't think Light is a freak. As a matter of fact I completely understand his reasoning. Where our train of thought is different and where my Ni gets left behind is this. I have the same exact defensive tactics as him, which is to shroud and move. So if someone comes at you, you bring the situation back to neutral, and while the person is still trying to regain sight of you, you move. When they come to their senses you aren't standing in front of them anymore. While they try to recoup and start on their direction, they are walking away from you.

    Now here is where Light and I differ. As people start moving in the wrong direction, I just walk away in the opposite. Let them chase their wrong shit, and go back to doing my own thing. Light is different. He brings the strategy through to completion. When the person is led astray, they are walking in the wrong direction, he maneuvers to right in front of them. So they run into him like a brick wall.

    Like Alexander I think it was, who used the strategy of attacking the rear, then slamming people from the front (or something I haven't read about that in a while). It finishes the act.


    ....Did that make any sense?

    Edit: Emo shit removed.

  3. #33
    Senior Member Little_Sticks's Avatar
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    If you want to use Ni, you have to passively assess the situation and make connections about how it's unraveling. If you're engaged with asserting yourself onto the world, you can't be using Ni. It passively reflects, Se directly asserts. Kind of like Si passively taking in the external world, Ne indirectly asserts.

    pretty sure anyway. nothing else really makes any sense.

    whatever. anyway.

  4. #34
    ThatGirl
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    Hm, that could be why the more I try to apply it, the more people think I am a sensor.

    I really need to unlock my creativity too.

  5. #35
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    Lol couldn't have said it better myself.

    I don't think Light is a freak. As a matter of fact I completely understand his reasoning. Where our train of thought is different and where my Ni gets left behind is this. I have the same exact defensive tactics as him, which is to shroud and move. So if someone comes at you, you bring the situation back to neutral, and while the person is still trying to regain sight of you, you move. When they come to their senses you aren't standing in front of them anymore. While they try to recoup and start on their direction, they are walking away from you.
    As you acknowledged, the difference here is that you're thinking tactically and Light is thinking strategically. Without going into all the components of strategy, he has devised a plan of action that takes into consideration every movement (within his reckoning) his opposition can take against his objective up until the point of victory. He's deliberately shaping the reality of his situation with each action he takes, not merely responding cleverly in context.

    Theoretically, an ENTJs strength lies in the ability to grasp the pertinent details of the situation before them (Te), project the interaction of those variables to some point in the future (Ni), and recognize the best action to reap maximum benefit from that understanding (Se-Fi). We skip step 2 sometime, which is why we come off looking like ESTPs. INTJs otoh get the twinge in the force first (Ni), determine the right shit to start moving around to actualize it (Te-Fi), and wait it out till they have exactly what they want (Se-last). They're kinda like spiders with lasers mounted on their heads.

    Strategy is easy because the models are finite and people are stupid.

    A while ago I went head to head with someone who was a lot stronger than myself. I had to go on the defense, so I learned the whole shroud, maneuver, then run. At the same time I was becoming increasingly more introverted, and more introverted. So I just defaulted into the same strategy. I think I have used this so much, I let my offensive components dissipate. I don't turn to lead someone into finale of the act.

    ....Did that make any sense?

    I need vision. To complete the thought. I used to know how....

    Oh! That's right. I remember when I killed that part of my thinking. The person I went up against, figured me out too easily. I was so logical, my moves were predictable. So after I would shroud, and maneuver, I forced myself to act without thought. Without logic. To just ride the wave from there. I turned off that portion of my thought process to appear more random. To not be predictable in where my stance existed after. I guess it is use it or lose it....

    How crazy did this post just sound? Lol.
    I think I relate to this. I'll explain it this way. The intuition that allows us to truly optimize our dominant function and be the kinda mofos that ENTJs are reputed to be takes a certain swagger. NTJs are about big calls and deliberate, transformative actions. When your confidence is shaken the magic can seem to go away. I think since you aware of your patterns and can recognize them as ineffective you have what you need to make a positive change for yourself. I hate losing. It can be hard for me to be objective about it. The best you can do is to take what you can from it, and try to avoid the same mistakes going forward. To borrow a line from my ESTJ father: it's not failure, but how one conducts themselves in the aftermath that defines your character.

    I think a neat and kind of low-stakes way to both develop your Intuition and build your confidence would be to take up chess if you don't play already. I started learning recently. I feel like I've learned more about strategic thought in a couple of weeks than I had from years of just passively reading up on military history.

    Anyway. My point, TG, is not to be intimidated by the dumb anime boys. Being a strategic genius is just not that fucking difficult, and nothing to be overly impressed about. Be yourself and just enjoy what comes from that.

    Alright. I'm now exhausted from all the touching and feeling. I'm going to go somewhere to do....something.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  6. #36
    Senior Member amerellis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    He means that all of the sensing and intuition functions are related to Jungian perceiving. Se, Si, Ne, and Ni are all Perceiving functions.

    Even though Ni dom/aux are Js.

    It is the Judging functions Fi, Ti, Fe, Te that determine P or J. P means you lead with introverted Judging function, and J means you lead with extroverted Judging function.
    Thanks for the explanations, Marmie I know I knew that at one point, back when I was first learning about it, but I've known about it for so long I now just always think using the Jungian functions.

    @MacGuffin

  7. #37
    ThatGirl
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    Yeah, I did try playing chess. Lol, I could hold my own in the same amount of moves against better players, then I would die (hard to kill). I could be with a queen and a bishop, and going after the other person's king, and it would take forever.

    I really, have a deficit of offensive strategy. Not just a deficit. My mind is completely closed off to it. Even as a normal person, with little strategical skills, some offensive strategy is inherent. I am completely blank.

    Anyway, thanks for the input. I found it incredibly helpful.

  8. #38
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    Anytime, chica.
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  9. #39
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by ThatGirl View Post
    No offense but you guys haven't really given great suggestions about how to MAKE it happen.

    And marm, you can just answer as you interperate it. How does what I said go against jung?

    Also if type is such a preferance as everyone keeps saying lately why do people insist you are born as you are, and that type doesn't change? That makes no sense.
    It's a subconscious action... If you could will it it'd no longer be based off of intuition, but evidence because that is essentially what you are wanting when you will it. You see things that are connected and are saying 'hey, connect these two things." however since you see the connection intuition has no reason to act upon the event, there is a reason why it is described as obscure connections. It is something that isn't readily used, because obscure relationships don't always exist, however when it is finally used it is fundamental enough to move mountains sort of speak. Somehow I feel like this is wrong, but it's 3am and that's all I have right now.

  10. #40
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    It's a subconscious action... If you could will it it'd no longer be based off of intuition, but evidence because that is essentially what you are wanting when you will it. You see things that are connected and are saying 'hey, connect these two things." however since you see the connection intuition has no reason to act upon the event, there is a reason why it is described as obscure connections. It is something that isn't readily used, because obscure relationships don't always exist, however when it is finally used it is fundamental enough to move mountains sort of speak. Somehow I feel like this is wrong, but it's 3am and that's all I have right now.
    Definitively.
    Intuition is already.
    Consciousness is late born.

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