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  1. #1
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default Notes on typology

    I am starting this thread as referential material concerning typology.

    So, please do post in this thread if you have more to add and by all means corrections are welcome...this is just my effort to help us be better in tune with some of the most important ideas concerning the MBTI and how it relates to other typological systems...

    Personality Test

    Correlations with Ennegram

    Pictures stated in a random order.

    Picture 1-Ennegram 3
    Picture 2-Ennegram 5
    Picture 3-Ennegram 1
    Picture 4-Ennegram 9
    Picture 5-Ennegram 8
    Picture 6-Ennegram 4
    Picture 7-Ennegram 6
    Picture 8-Ennegram 2
    Picture 9-Ennegram 7


    Connections with MBTI

    Picture 1-Se
    Picture 2-Ti
    Picture 3-Ni
    Picture 4-Fi/Ne
    Picture 5-Te
    Picture 6-Fi
    Picture 7-Si
    Picture 8-Fe
    Picture 9-Ne


    Connections of the Ennegram with MBTI

    EN1-Ni
    EN2-Fe
    EN3-Se
    EN4-Fi
    EN5-Ti
    EN6-Si
    EN7-Ne
    EN8-Te
    EN9-Fi/Ne

    We should also take a careful note of the fact that Ennegram will only allow you to have a wing adjacent to your main type, yet I think that this is a mistake. Many of us would assert that a non-adjacent type would suit us better. I, as an INTP certainly can say this for myself. I usually test as a 5w4, but I do think that a 5w7 would suit me much better. A 5 for my Ti, and 7 for my Ne.

    Here is how I think most types would usually test on Ennegram and how I think they should test, had the system been modified. I know that Ennegram is somewhat of a 'hodge-podge system' and there are many ways to read how those types are defined and how they relate to Ennegram, yet now I am saying that there are clear-cut answers because I am trying to come up with the most systematic way of looking at it... remember... this is just one way... not the only way to look at typology..

    *Judgers, I will apologize in advance--for I listed the types here in an arbitrary fashion


    INTP-5w4--5w7


    INTJ-1..yet they could well be thought of as a 1w8--1 for the Ni... and 8 for the Te..(Not 5w4...their Ni can make their Te seem like a Ti, but thats not the case. INTJs tend to better identify with the persona of a passionate visionary who wants to make his dreams a reality than a clam problem solver who would be content with merely knowing the truth. So 1 suits them better than a 5. Conversely, INTPs may mistake themselves for a 1 because their Ti can make their Ne seem introverted..)


    ENTJ-8w7..so I should ask... why w7? Because thats simply the best answer out of the two the Ennegram can give them... and besides 7 is basically Ne... and the Te of the ENTJ can make the Ni seem like extroverted Intuition... so a more fitting statement would be 8w1... ENTJs are not only just 'generals' who like to bark orders... they... much like the INTJs tend to have this visionary component to them (1--Ni)

    ENTP-7w5... (no not a social 5..)Ne comes first...they could well be 9s... as they see the big picture well and have somewhat of a need to please people (tertiary Fe)... but I've decided not to put them on that shelf.. as I dont think that they are just 'F' enough to be a 9...and again 9s have a need to please people.. I do attribute this to 'Fness'


    ENFP-Oftenly test as 2s....7s...9s....or even 4s... quite a mess..

    Earlier on I've said that type 9 is a cross between Ne and Fi... why would this be? 9s, I assume are mediators... so to be a 9 you have to first and foremost... see the big picture clearly.... (Ne)...and have a desire to please people (this isnt imperative but it helps nonetheless) so I am thinking that Feeling would help you more with mediation than thinking... So... Fe/Fi... I prefer Fi rather than Fe...9s tend not to want as much recognition for their kind deeds.. yet Fes... as Extroverts... would probably want more...(not saying that they long for it... but they would probably need less of it than Fes).. ENFJs... however... I do notice are less likely to want a lot of public recognition than ESFJs..I could explain why... but in this case I doubt it is necessary...

    So anyways back to the ENFP...I'd say 7w4...7 for the Ne... and 4 for the Fi... many ENFPs say that they are a w6... 6s tend to be conservative and security conscious.....yet Ne has a lot to do with many things that have little in common with a quintissential 6... so I'd easily say that 6 is an Si... and 7 an Ne... those two are difficult to reconcile... so 7w6 probably is not a good idea..others say they are a 7w8... I could see how they could appear to be that... Ne can make the Fi look like an extroverted judgment faculty... but still not exactly right.. a quintissential 8 would be an ENTJ... one with a forceful personality... who admires the hierarchy and has no problem hurting feelings if necessary... anything to get the task done... whereas ENFPs tend to be rather sensitive...Many 8s would say that you dont have to like people or treat them with compassion.. you just have to treat them fairly... most ENFPs would remonstrate to this...Nonetheless.. my point is that 8 is basically a Te... and ENFPs have Fi as the superior judging function which is diametrically opposed to the Te.. Again ENFPs could easily be a quintissential 9.. but I'll just play it safe and say 7w4...



    INFP-Fi for 4...Ne for 7... so 4w7...

    Many test as 4w5... I see how this could be... the INXP does give them a scholarly bent... but again 5s... as I conceive them are calm problem solvers... and INFPs...despite the fact that many of them are very erudite could not be described as that.. as 5s.. once again tend to be concerned with impersonal problem solving...


    INFJ-1w2...or very easily a 1w9... for the same reason as the ENFPs... they see big picture clearly (Ni)...understand people and have a need to please them (Fe)... so they'd make a good case for a 9... but again I am saying 1w2 because that lines up better with how MBTI connects to Ennegram typology.. 1--Ni...2-Fe...



    ENFJ-2w1

    I do think that 2 is very fitting here because ENFJs tend to be that type who are willing to help people while asking little in return.. they are not 9s... (selfless helpers as many type descriptions stated)... because as Extroverts... they think of how they relate to the environment and not vice versa... hence... unlike 9s... they derive much of their inner identity (despite that this sounds like an oxymoron... which it well is...) from the outside... from their external services... and 1 speaks for their Ni--Visionary aspect of personalities that many ENFJs have..


    ESFJ-2w6... 2--Fe... 6-Si... I do think this is quite fitting because many ESFJs seem like textbook examples for people who are concerned with being altruistic and at the same time are security conscious..


    ISFJ-6w2..

    ISTJ-6w8...They oftenly test as 6w5.. and I could see how this could be the case as the Si can make the Te seem like a Ti...essentially though... 8 I think sounds more appropriate as the Te is their secondary function... we could notice how at times they tend to get bossy and insist on how they know about the most efficient ways to get things done...yet significantly less so than then ESTJ..


    ESTJ-8w6..they seem less 8 than ENTJs because the ENTJs have their Te supported by the Ni vision... ESTJs dont have this... but again they still seem to have this Te aspect to them that does reminisce an 8 in many ways...

    ESTP-3w5..3 for Se... and 5 for Ti..

    ISTP-5w3...(many test as 6w5... but I wouldnt call them a 6 as they are just not SJ enough...and 5w6..)again... despite that ISTPs do have a higher need to fit in than INTPs... they are just not 6ish enough and the typical 5 attitude (bohemiansolitary skeptic who oftenly promotes unorthodox ideas seems mutually exclusive with the 6 attitude... (accept authority... dont ask a lot of questions... do what you're told it just makes things easier)..so 5w6 strikes me as incoherent..

    ISFP-4w3 4-Fi..3-Se..

    ESFP-3w4

    *Some asserted that INTPs...ISFPs...and ENTPs could be type 9 on Ennegram...That claim I can not accept as again 9s, as I understand them tend to enjoy self-less services to others..and have a deep need to please people and see the big picture well...

    ENFP is not exactly appropriate for this because they derive much of their identity from the outside.. so self-less service may not be what they'd specialize in... INFJ seems like a more viable option... yet again the nature of their Feeling faculty is extroverted and this vitiates them for the same reason as the ENFP...

    In the end... we are left without a choice but to declare the INFP as the closest thing on MBTI to a 9... as their Feeling is introverted and therefore better suited for self-less service than the Fe(as it is guided by an internal... rather than an external purpose).. and Ne... though externally oriented should give them sufficient insight into the 'big picture' of the scenario..
    Last edited by SolitaryWalker; 05-13-2007 at 07:16 PM.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

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  2. #2
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default More notes on typology..

    ENTJ

    The superior function is the Te. The auxiliary is the Ni.

    What this means is that the ENTJ first and foremost was built to organize the outer world. To create and impose structure. He may seem like an intellectual and a profound and an incisive thinker in virtue of his Ni, and that he may very well be, however, lets not forget that his superior function is the Te which has little to do with theories, perhaps more with their exposition and how to sell them. Thus because the ENTJ is led by Extroverted Thinking it is better to think of him as a person of worldly affairs than a man of contemplation. ENTJs, because of their extremely high need for structure bear a lurid semblance on the SJ way of doing things and for this reason I consider them to be the least NT of the rationals.







    ENTPs, on a superficial level may resemble the ESTPs who are frequently seen as the typical hedonists. It is true that the former tend to have very easy-going and happy go lucky personalities that allow them to fit in and have a good time almost everywhere, and out of all 16 types they tend to report the least amount of overall stress with their lives. This certainly does not mean that they are the least stressed of all types, its just that they tend not to report it as much as others. Much like the ENFP is not necessarily any less melancholy than the INFP, albeit the former's Ne overshadows the voice of the Fi, and the Fi only affects them implicitly, and thus the ENFP may not be directly aware of the inner state of their psyche. The problem that we should take note of for the ENTP is that despite their gregarious, optimistic and hedonistic nature, they are a lot deeper and more intelligent than they seem to be. Many ENTPs in their youth probably had no notion of what cerebral pursuits are, or what it means to think for yourself or have a coherent worldview, and just kept on bouncing around from one stimulating activity to another, without ever reflecting on what they were doing. Or how school always came easy to them, and that they could pull of massive presentations decisively, with skill and extraordinary quality of presentation. Or how they kept on drifting through the motions as if it all came natural to them without ever asking themselves how they were doing it, or what the purpose of it all was, or where they stood in relation to the world or who they were all in all. After getting accustomed to making friends effortlessly, fitting in everywhere and having just about everything that possibly could go that way end up being so, they come to a rather stark realization. That they really are not what they appear to be on the surface. That they are much too deep to live a life of an Epicure. That they are much too idiosyncratic to fit in everywhere and much too complex to be understood and accepted for their true inner being by most people that they have regarded as their friends. ENTPs tend to be exceptionally bright and farsighted individuals. Unfortunately, they are unlikely to enjoy the fruits of their natural talents unless they develop their Introverted side, their Introverted Thinking. Then, and only then will they be able to become truly reflective and put their highly intuitive and imaginative minds to use. More so than any other extroverted type, this is the one that is in the most dire need of introspection and quiet reflection. ENTPs really need to spend time alone to reflect, this is the only way that they could get in touch with their whole being.






    INTP

    The INTP is indeed the rational of the rationals. They are the most in tune with their Thinking and analytical side because of the primacy of their Ti. They clearly exhibit the highest precision in thought and language of all 16 types. Nothing is accepted before it has been shown that it makes sense by most well-functioning INTPs. As David Keirsey, an INTP himself once noted that only what is coherent and logical carries weight with the INTP. INTPs tend to be clever and ingenious people frequently applauded for their great vision, understanding of the outer world and creativity. INTPs may be very creative and may understand the outer world well, as ENTPs may be intensely logical, however, we should note that the INTP is first and foremost and introvert and a logician. Vision, creativity and ingenuity come as secondary concerns. Unlike the ENTP, INTPs tend not to hold much interest in politics and regard the whole enterprise (as I myself do) with a mixture of contempt and horror. They may seem adventurous like the ENTPs usually do, but they only use the Ne to support the intellectual needs of the Ti. The Ne is never an end in itself, it is merely a serf of their impersonal, and a rigorously logical outlook on life and the Ne as a thing in itself is being used as a vehicle to carry out the tasks marshalled by the Ti, and it is oftenly used as a measuring stick to assess how well the INTP has coped, as well as a tool to relate to the outer world. But nonetheless, we should point out that the INTP for all his creativity and vision only uses the Ne as means to satisfy the necessity of having to relate to the world and accomodate the Ti, because he understands that he can not get very far with just the raw logic. If he tries to cling to the Ti, it will begin to eat itself away and defeat its own purpose, the more domineering the Ti becomes the less objective and incisive the INTP will become.



    INTJ

    I consider for the INTJ to be the most sensitive of the rationals. They indeed are the type who has the most in common with the NFs. Why is this so? Because they have Fi in their third position, and the the primacy of the Ni makes getting connected to the Fi a lot easier for the INTJ, than otherwise for the ENTP reaching to the Fe with the Ne. The INTJs use thinking primarily to deal with the outer world. Extroverted Thinking can make them seem particularly dogmatic and unyielding. However, this is not true of their true self. They are led by the vision of Introverted Intuition. This makes them one of the, if not the most Open-Minded types that you will ever find. For all their systematical and an extremely predictable way of relating to the world, their inner world is mystical and often whimsical. They are fascinated with mysticism, and INTJ scientists frequently welcome a blend of empricism and mysticism. Out of all the rationals, the INTJs are also the most likely to be successful literary artists as well as eminent thinkers. Ayn Rand, Nietzsche, and Jean Paul Sartre are good examples of this. Even though they may seem very assertive with their Te way of handling the outer world, they are usually endowed with a high degree of sensitivity, as the Ni-Fi partnership accounts for. However, unlike many F types, this sensitivity does not come natural to the INTJs. Generally they do not receive it untill they mellow with age. Younger INTJs, as Leanor Thompson noted in Personality type, frequently use their Te to detach themselves from emotions and use their Fi sentiments to support that kind of a mentality, and thus when they are being credited with staying away from the emotional fray of life, they should correct the complimentor on the note that they have never been in it. INTJs can write very assertively in virtue of their Te, and be profoundly indiosyncratic and ingenious with their Ni, but they could also present their ideas with compelling charm and vigor in virtue of their Fi.




    The Idealists

    INFP

    INFPs indeed are the idealists of the Idealists. With their lead Fi, they are keenly aware of their values and are always concerned with what ideals should be endorsed in society. I consider for the INFP to be the most sensitive of all types. They could be easily put off by even mild abrasiveness and when upset could be very subjective in their interpretations of the behavior of the offender, frequently reading between the lines and attributing beliefs and actions to the wrong-doer that he otherwise did not have. They take almost everything personally and the notion of being detached must sound distasteful to them. They tolerate very little criticism and frequently see it, whether intended or not as an attack upon their character, which in many cases is close to unforgivable. They highly value integrity and a sense of inner peace. One of their most deeply cherished values must be compassion, I would surmise. They respect people who are genuinely kind and are concerned with the human race and its destiny. They are very perceptive about people and can read into their feelings very well. I think that the Fi is analogous to the human element as the Ti to reading complex systems. So just like the INTP exhibits the greatest precision in thought and language, the INFP exhibits greatest precision in understanding people, writing poetry, appreciating literature and art, and getting in tune with the zest of human soul. They indeed are the best of all 16 types at the art of appreciation and their feelings likely are the keenest and run the deepest, but unlike the ENFP, they may be less eager to express them, and their sincerity and depth may seem to an outside observer to be less than manifest. They firmly believe in their ideals and will stick by them through thick and thin, they are also very loyal, and I would say the most devoted to people that they have invested faith in, very unlikely to be dishonest or be backstabbers, since they put so much weight on their inner sense of integrity. When threatened or intimidated they will refuse to abandon their ideals, they always know what is right and what they should stand for. Frequently they go so far as to assert that their feelings, values and things they stand for are superior to mere logic and even that the outward reality should conform to it. So great is their passion for their causes. They are the true champions for the cause of cherishing the newfound hopes for a changing world. Unfortunately, many INFPs, as Introverted Perceivers, much like the INTPs, never get around to live out their ideals or to see their beliefs applied to work, and this I think is largely due to their very internally focused nature, whereas much like the INTP believes it is only important to solve the problem, and how it is applied is not important, the INFPs may think that being a good person or finding the inner spirit is all that matters, whereas its outward ramifications may be of little or no value. INFPs, much like the INTPs, tend to be very adaptable, but when one of their values or principles has been violated, they cease to be adaptable at all. They also have a very high need to have their outward life match their deeply cherished causes and beliefs. Much like the case was with John Milton's Paradise Lost, his life was one of immense struggle, search for human perfection, search for eternal bliss, whereas the Poet himself became the Protagonist in Paradise Lost. INFPs dont want to preach. They want their lives to become their teaching. If there ever was an INFP, it would be the Great Danish Theologian/Literary artist Soren Kierkegaard who decried the national Danish Church for betraying Christ and endorsing this 'amiable sentimental paganism' infused with sanctimony and religious cant. Christian Faith, Kierkegaard asserted was all about the self-abnegation, humiliation and degradation that Christ has suffered, or otherwise it is nothing.




    ENFP

    The ENFP has the same relationship to the INFP as the ENTP to the INTP. As ENTPs tend to be logical, but being that way is not imperative for them, so do ENFPs tend to be compassionate, caring, dreaming and devoted to their idealistic causes, as well as focused on character-building. Thus, much like the INFP, with their Fi, they have little patience with criticism because they are afraid of their character being attacked. One INFP politician was asked had he ever commited adultery, he said no, but that he felt lust in his heart. INFPs tend to be very serious about their adherence to values and maxims, however ENFPs tend to be a lot more loose about that. Just like their ENTP cousin, they are very gifted with language and have considerable rhetorical talents, so just like President Clinton, when their Ne runs wild and they commit acts that to an INFP would seem abominable, they use the sentiments of the Fi to appease the blind whim of their Extroverted Intuition. And are always supremely confident of the public buying into their sham sincerity. Although ENFPs frequently are insincere because the Fi ends up being enslaved by the Ne, they usually end up having a very strong sense of consciousness, and can really tear themselves up when convicted of evil-doing. This is why many ENFPs are very much afraid of introspection, their Fi is way too sensitive, and by their own standards they probably have gone way too far astray as their Ne tends to run wild A LOT. Unlike the INFPs who tend to do a great deal of introspection, ENFPs are men and women of affairs, they are very much externally as opposed to internally focused. They are usually very bright and perceptive, especially when it comes to the way external systems work, especially those that relate to the human element, and thus they make excellent antrhopologists, sociologists, humanists and writers, however, they tend not to know themselves very well. As Leo Tolstoy, an ENFP himself is the case in point. Many of his novels rise to transcendent heights and profoundly embody the vigor of true human spirit, however, if you read his journals and biographies it would become obvious that Leo was not a man of deep reflection and introspection, no doubt this is due to the Ne-Fi friction. ENFPs, once again tend to be very gentle and considerate of people, tend to value them for who they are and be very sensitive to ideals, however we should note that the ENFP's salient function is extroverted intuition. So, thus their primary focus is on doing and exploring new things. Human character, soul-searching, pursuit of ideals are less important than grabbing the life by the horns, getting out there and really experiencing it for its raw taste. Such is the ambiance of the Ne holding primacy over the Fi. ENFPs tend to approach people with compassion and can be profoundly hurt by insensitivites like the INFP, but the former spend much less time on introspection, and thus tend to shrugg things under the carpet a bit more easily and get over them without having to work through their feelings, they also tend to put on a cheerful and a happy go lucky persona, which comes natural to them when dealing with people, but in reality their lies a sleeping giant of angst within their Fi function that they rarely get a chance to awaken. Much like the INFP, they tend to be moved by the misfortunes of strangers, but they dont think about them too oftenly, they frequently have way too many things to do and too many ideas to joggle to dwell on those things, on a superficial level they may seem moved by them because of their compassion and a profound ability to empathize with people, but in the great scheme of things it does not affect their life that much, they just shrugg it all under the carpet so they can furthermore ingratiate their Ne and continue to do new things. So as a concluding statement for this personality type, I shall say, unlike the melancholy INFP, the ENFP is a person of affairs, not the human spirit or contemplation. However, despite all of that, they are born leaders and can do very well in handling tasks that are focused on helping others.




    INFJ

    INFJs have been the most successful literary artists in history, I reckon. Dante, Plato, Schopenhauer and Dostoevsky were all INFJs. They have a great internal vision that they are guided by, and they assess information that is taken in accordance to the way it conforms to the inner vision. They are highly intuitive and oftenly trust their hunches. As Extroverted Feelers, they tend to have a strong social consciousness, and are very concerned with maintaining a high morale within their group. However, the negative side of this entity is that they may accept conventional standards for self-evaluation, younger INFJs should be particularly threatened by this. Much like the INFPs, INFJs are thorough-going idealists and respect what is out of the ordinary and those who are willing to stand out of the crowd in order to fight for what they consider to be justice or any other ideal that they put a high premium on. They are guided by an irrational Ni vision which gives them insatiable curiosity, but unfortunately they tend to rely on the very conventional Fe function to bring order to their inner world and this may make them seem more conventional and common-place than they really are, however, we should make a clear note of the INFJ being deeply idiosyncratic and highly individualistic people, they are certainly far from conventional in any reasonable sense of the word. Bryan Magee, an INFJ himself as a writer of popular philosophy (In Confessions of a Philosopher) his intellectual biography documented his life-long study of philosophical ideas. He talked about how what he has been learning has had profound impacts on his life, how he frequently found himself waking up in the middle of the night thinking about problems of philosophy, and on his daily walks how he was constantly in reverie making love to what he has just acquired, and how on weekends he frequently would shut himself off to soak away in his studies. This is a good example, I would guess of how the Ni-Fe axis works. Introversion, as Leanor Thompson maintained is an attitude where we see the world in terms of the way it relates to us, and not vice versa. Thus an INTP regards logic as it relates to him. Same goes for the INFJ and Intuition. They regard ideas in terms of how they relate to them and their vision, and than they get transferred down to the Fe, where those visions and ideas become a profoundly personal business. Bryan Magee, has mentioned once about how the inability to find meaning in his life through philosophy or to work through many of his ideas has gotten him to the point where he almost lost his will to live, and was seriously in fear of having a heart-attack as he had learned that they tend to be psychosomatic. Just like INTJs use their Te to make abstract ideas useful to the intellectual world, the INFJs use their Fe to do all they can in order to have the public benefit from their ideas. Much like Bryan Magee, instead of becoming an ivory tower academic, went into politics to use philosophy to make the world a more understanding and a tolerant place. And as far as his career as an author was concerned, he didnt join the scholars in solving some pedantic philosophical problem or trying to figure out how to best read Aristotle, instead he concerned himself with popular philosophy. He did all he could to make philosophy as easy and as accessible for the general intelligent person to read, even one who has never read philosophy before. He used his career as a broadcaster exactly for that purpose, whereas he invited the leading thinkers of his time to discuss ideas with him on TV, and he has made all the arrangements possible in order for their dialogues to be easily understandable. Even the most difficult and abstruse of concepts were presented with compelling clarity and warmth. Now, this is the true intellectual spirit of INFJ altruism. INFJs, as feelers tend to be genial and considerate with most people they encounter. They empathize deeply and believe in their ideals of love, however, we should note that unlike the ENFJs, INFJs are first and foremost people of ideas and contemplation, not action and care-taking. Hence, they are the most scholarly of the Idealists and have the most in common with their NT neighbors. This is in part due to the Ti being the third function, and the astounding vision of the Ni in combination with the systematic presentation style of the Fe. Of all the NFs, they have the greatest precision in thought and language. Ergo, for this reason, unlike the INFPs they have a w5.





    ENFJ

    ENFJs, as leading Extroverted Judgers, of all the Idealists are the most concerned with making an impact. Not in the SP sense of making an impact just to make it, their approach is very personal, they want to influence people and ultimately make the world a better place. They approach others with genuine empathy and goodwill and are frequently willing to devote a great deal of energy to their personal relationships and altruistic ventures that they go on. Out of all the NFs, they clearly are the type with the strongest desire to make the world a better place. Unlike the Idealists of the Idealists INFPs, who are primarily concerned with the inner essence of compassion, the ENFJs need to see it outwardly manifested, they wish for their ideals to be implemented. ENFJs are the most altruistic of all 16 types. However, they also tend to be highly emotional and hence frequently their altruism does not stemm from the goodness of their hearts. Like a typical 2 on Ennegram, they want emotional gratifications for their kind deeds and resent anyone even slightly implying that they could be being selfish. Nonetheless the Feeling in itself is frequently good enough of an assurance for the ENFJ to be satisfied with having done what they have done, as they get genuine satisfaction from helping people. They connect deeply on a personal level and are very sensitive to conflict and discord, and once they detect a low morale within the group they feel compelled to aid the cause and are almost always driven to meet the needs of others. Out of all 16 types, they have the greatest tendencies towards self-sacrifice, and could very likely invest all of their energy into their romantic partner and could hardly ever be happy had the other party not been satisfied. This also leads to a very high degree of sensitivity, and if their partner lacks tact they could be profoundly bruised. The reason why I am spending so much time talking about altruism and relationships in connection to the ENFJ because it should seem evident to any honest student of MBTI that this is what the ENFJ is all about. People and their feelings, nothing but that, they get so engrossed in the two that on a superficial level it seems like that they hardly even have a soul. But this assumption would certainly be erroneous because their Introverted Intuition is oftenly very strong and they accumulate great insight about abstractions, people and especially so about anything that involves the human element. They have a powerful vision of how the World works and unlike most Extroverts, as they get older have a rich inner life, must like their INFJ cousin. ENFJs are profound thinkers like the INFJs and tend to believe that everything happens for a reason, many are believers in fate because their vision of how the world works tends to be very consistent that they use as a measuring stick to assess the phenomena of external affairs, and that this is so to the point where they are so cocksure of how things are on the metaphysical level, that they adamantly adhere to their nicely organized fate-based vision of the Universe even when common-sense and sober logic strongly disagree with it. For all their luminous visions, ENFJs as Extroverted Feelers remain, first and foremost people of affairs, not contemplation. They are predominantly concerned with taking care of others and making their community and eventually as well as hopefully the world a better place. I think that the ENFJ has a w3 because their emotional need brings about a certain concern with image. As I said that the INFJs tend to be quite sensitive but actually are people of thought and inner contemplation, and may not be the best for you to come to if you're looking for a sympathetic shoulder to cry on, but with the ENFJs quite the opposite is true. They are much more focused on the human element and people's feelings than on their ideas and indeed are the best at giving emotional support and doing just the right thing to take care of one's feelings.
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  3. #3
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Part two....

    The Artisans.

    ESTP

    Good at sports, Daredevils, quintissential SPs, handy with tools, logical and analytical, have difficulty with abstract concepts, concerned with image, superficial, detail-oriented, skilled at tactics, externally focused/outgoing, prone to indulging in pop-culture.



    Socionics:ESTp

    ISTP

    Analytical, adventurous, dont like doing tasks that dont make sense,handy with tools, not fascinated with abstractions, low capacity for caring, aloof, internally focused, highly value autonomy, resist structure, excell at sports, tend to be physically tough, greatly appreciate intense physical stimuli, the most erudite of the sensors.



    ISFP

    Sensitive, Natural Artists, leisurely, high capacity for caring, demand inner peace, do not value logic, not analytical or abstract, sensualists, caring, appreciative of beauty.



    ESFP

    Life of the party, sensitive, disorganized, irresponsible, sensualists, upbeat, deeply moved by the sorrows of others and thus dont like the melancholy mood that could potentially spoil their day, mercurial, highly energetic, prone to drug use, hedonistic, nocturnal, high capacity for caring, non-abstract thinkers, illogical.




    The Traditionalists

    ESTJ

    Structured, Organized, natural leader, rule-follower, group-oriented, tends to be insensitive, steady, controlling, religious, traditional, enjoys doing good deeds though does not necessarily have good will, not very altruistic, can't relax unless all work is done, has strong opinions about how things should be done, very conscientious, responsible, believes there is one right way to do everything, is particular about how things should be done, concerned about others and makes it a point to make sure that they always have what they need as opposed to just what they want to have, shrewd, hates inefficiency and gets rid of people who he deems to be so, regards conformity as a moral good, enjoys making friends: all people are potential buddies as long as they follow the rules and behave themselves, otherwise they are just a sort of chaos that the ESTJ abhors.




    ISTJ

    Calm, steady, reliable, predictable, very detailed person, organized, trustworthy, finisher, workaholic tendencies, not much of a visionary, planner, concerned with the welfare of others, values calm and harmony, traditional, tends to be pessimistic, reasonable person, does not like doing things that do not make sense, most scholarly of the Traditionalists, methodical, logical and orderly, can be very knowledgeable about what is practical and what should be done and when though much less proficient with abstract ideas, easily confused and discouraged by philosophical discussions, though when things come to concrete ideas or how they should be implemented the ISTJ is without peer, very strict respect for the facts, stores facts and knowledge in the back of his mind which keeps him prepared for whatever exigencies there may be in life, well-rounded, conventional, secretely sensitive and can be bruised by criticisms, willing to listen to Intuitors though frequently has a difficult time understanding their point of view, loyal and dedicated to friends and organizations though primary duties go to the family, can be counted on to get the job done, strong affinity with nature and the physical world.



    ISFJ

    Born nurturer, sensitive, considerate of the needs of others, detailed person, has a deep need to belong, makes it a point to have others feel welcome as a host, dutiful and conscientious, respects facts though puts a higher premium on person-centered entities and values, understands logic but finds values and feelings to be more important, may have many irrational fears, worry wart of the family, tends to be pessimistic, conservative, loyal to friends and organization though primary responsibility is to the family, traditional, animal-lover, strong affinity with nature.



    ESFJ

    Sensitive, deep need to belong and to be liked, puts a very high premium on personal values and is so strongly in tune with them that may force the ESFJ to pay little or no attention to logic, detailed person, concerned with taking care of others and especially their daily needs, not an abstract thinker, caring, supportive, empathetical, easily upset, very personal and personable, concerned with image, concerned with the welfare of others, concerned with public morality, sympathizes with the homeless, prone to panic, easily moved to tears, altruistic, easily susceptible to superstition and media manipulation, conventional and a dogmatic moralist, not very open minded though appreciates alien ideas just because she/he thinks that those ideas are important to people and ESFJs are all about people and taking care of them, fascinated with gossip, easily memorizes facts about people, does not have much of a problem accepting rules that make no sense, frequently responds indignantly once values are violated or character is attacked, rarely questions what she/he has been taught at childhood, strict respect for the facts, highly traditional, extremely sentimental, has many irrational fears, made uncomfortable by philosophical discussions, likes most people, born nurturer.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #4
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Default Oldham connections with MBTI/Ennegram..

    INFJ-Idiosyncratic

    Some have argued that sensitive is a better fit. I'd say no to that because sensitive goes along better with Feeling and this is not the INFJ's superior function.

    INFP-Sensitive. Fi is the function that is sensitive in the strictest sense of the word and in this case is magnified by Intuition. What I mean is that Fi has the highest emotional intelligence and superb empathizing abilities. Many INFPs will be able to just see right through your motives, you might as well just confess on the spot.


    ENFP-Mercurial... Doubt there will be many questions about this one...in short... to me its manifest that mercurial almost by definition implies NP and goes along better with the Fi melancholy nature than the calm--analytical Ti of the ENTP...

    INTP,ISTP-Solitaryto be preferred to the ISTP because INTPs are better adept for a solitary lifestyle...

    ISFP-Leisurely

    INTJ-Idiosyncratic--Ni

    ENTJ-Aggressive

    ESTJ-Self-Confident

    ENTP-Vigilant--Ne has great awareness of the external environment...and many INTPs test as vigilant, I'd suspect that this is in virtue of their secondary Ne..

    ENFJ-Self-Sacrificing..

    ISFJ-Devoted... Quiet followers... willing to stick to you through thick and thin so long as you are kind to them... will probably do just about anything for you as long as you ask nicely..


    ISTJ-Conscientious..If you want every i dotted... the ISTJ is your man...and let noone imagine that conscientious has anything to do with the Ennegram 1.. Ennegram 1s are visionaries... conscientious people tend to be loyal followers who can always be expected to get the job done regardless of how nauseating it may appear to most...this quality of character is quite rare among the folks who live in the land where noone has ever been before..

    ESFJ-Conscientious..ESFJs are very much focused on their duty to the community with their extroverted judgment... oftenly sacrificing themselves for the external standards and they have this painstakingly thorough when working with details quality from the Si...

    ESTP-Adventurous..

    ESFP-[B]Dramatic[B]
    (These dont fit all that neatly... so I will just be looking for the most compatible pairing)
    Ennegram 1-Idiosyncratic
    Ennegram 2-Self-Sacrificing
    Ennegram 3-Adventurous,Dramatic
    Ennegram 4-Sensitive
    Ennegram 5-Solitary
    Ennegram 6-Conscientious
    Ennegram 7-Mercurial,Vigilant
    Ennegram 8-Aggressive, Self-Confident
    Ennegram 9-Devoted,Leisurely
    Last edited by SolitaryWalker; 05-14-2007 at 05:12 AM.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  5. #5
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    I am Solitary/Idiosyncratic/Adventurous 5w6 and am either Ti or Ni dominant.

  6. #6
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    LOL, you dragged up a SolitaryWalker thread from 5 years ago? Wow..yeah..that takes me back alright
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

  7. #7
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    I'm just wondering why the hell I was subscribed to this thread...


  8. #8
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zarathustra View Post
    I'm just wondering why the hell I was subscribed to this thread...
    Masochism.

  9. #9
    The High Priestess Amargith's Avatar
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    @Zarathustra



    Seriously?!
    Last edited by Amargith; 07-09-2012 at 11:27 AM.
    ★ڿڰۣ✿ℒoѵℯ✿ڿڰۣ★





    "Harm none, do as ye will”

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    SolitaryWalker is INTP. I mean look at his long and boring wall of text he actually expects people to read! I probably read about 1000 words of it and called it quits.

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