Fe politics versus Fi politics

[Magic Poriferan]

well, this thread is a real rainbow of topics.

To you Texans, I'd just like to that the notion that the top 1% of this country earned their wealth is amazingly fantiful.
It's also an insult to every decent poor person, and too much praise for every scumbag that happens to be rich.

 

[Metamorphosis]

Over 80% who are in the top 1% were born into it. Of the less than 20% who graduated to the the top 1%, over half were in the top 5%. I believe the figure was 4-6% of those who are in the top 1% "earned" it. How of many those do you imagine are lottery winners? One of the biggest American myths is that the bottom can get to the top by tightening their boot straps and working hard. The statistics don't lie. America has low social mobility.

Why does it have to be achieved in one life time? Why is making your family progressively richer and passing it on a crime? Should all wealth be given up at death?

The top 1% who own 33% of the nation's wealth pay about 33% of the taxes. That is called paying your share.

That's how a flat tax would work anyways. In reality, the tax structure is progressive so the rich pay a higher percentage of their share than the poor.

but it doesn't matter...*gets nudged out the door by whatever*

 

[miss fortune]

Why the fuck aren't you guys taking the socio-economic discussion elsewhere?!?

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Oh, and I'd like to add this:
It comes from the CIA World Factbook about the USA.

those at the bottom lack the education and the professional/technical skills of those at the top and, more and more, fail to get comparable pay raises, health insurance coverage, and other benefits. Since 1975, practically all the gains in household income have gone to the top 20% of households.

Long-term problems include inadequate investment in economic infrastructure, rapidly rising medical and pension costs of an aging population, sizable trade and budget deficits, and stagnation of family income in the lower economic groups.

Even the CIA admits this stuff is a problem.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Why the fuck aren't you guys taking the socio-economic discussion elsewhere?!?

Because it's still here.
I think a mod is going to have to move it.

 

[ByMySword]

Over 80% who are in the top 1% were born into it. Of the less than 20% who graduated to the the top 1%, over half were in the top 5%. I believe the figure was 4-6% of those who are in the top 1% "earned" it. How of many those do you imagine are lottery winners? One of the biggest American myths is that the bottom can get to the top by tightening their boot straps and working hard. The statistics don't lie. America has low social mobility.

So? Somewhere along the way someone earned it. I don't want anyone taking the wealth my family worked hard to get, no matter how much it is. So why should they be ok with it? Because they can afford it? No. That's not good enough. They owe no obligation to help anyone. They pay their taxes as do we all.

Edit: Once again Meta, you beat me to the punch. Touche, sir.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

I don't think they earned it. That's where the main disagreance comes from.
Some times the level of wealth is so vast that I don't even think an one person CAN earn it.

So? Somewhere along the way someone earned it. I don't want anyone taking the wealth my family worked hard to get, no matter how much it is. So why should they be ok with it? Because they can afford it? No. That's not good enough. They owe no obligation to help anyone. They pay their taxes as do we all.

Bullshit. All who participate in society are obligated to help fellow citizens.
If you don't want to have any responsiblity for anyone else, then you can abandon society and all of its benefits.

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

You forgot personality traits.

I never said I "intuit every one of a person's values, allegiances and sympathies simply from their birthplace and political persuasion." I said I have an emotional reaction that leads me to overgeneralize or jest when confronted by those who who are right wing minded. I also have an emotional reaction to those who try to put words into my mouth, but I think I'll leave this thread before you see it.

Okay, then I put words in your mouth. If that's true, then you're essentially admitting that you judge people unfairly based on previous experiences with people who are tangentially similar. You can have your pick.

To you Texans, I'd just like to that the notion that the top 1% of this country earned their wealth is amazingly fantiful.
It's also an insult to every decent poor person, and too much praise for every scumbag that happens to be rich.

That's a very easy thing to say, because it's always more socially acceptable to disparage people higher up on the socioeconomic ladder than lower down. But if I were a rich person who had gotten my money through my own efforts, or even the efforts of my parents, I'd bristle at the suggestion that I didn't earn it (in the first instance) or deserve it (in the second). Saying I deserve that money is not at all the same thing as saying that decent poor people would have money if they just worked harder.

Let's say two people open businesses next door to each other and work equally hard at them but one fails and one succeeds. The successful man has earned his money. It's not a disparagement of the man who failed to say that the successful man earned his money. There is nothing implicit in that statement that says the man who failed deserved his failure.

Sometimes hard work is rewarded, sometimes it is not. The world is littered with hard working people that never got out from under, and people who succeeded where they have failed are a convenient target for the anger that has no real target except for the vagaries of life.

 

[Mr Galt]

Bullshit. All who participate in society are obligated to help fellow citizens.
If you don't want to have any responsiblity for anyone else, then you can abandon society and all of its benefits.

That argument is often tossed around. I'm sure the rich would gladly give up their entitlement to such social benefits as welfare, social security, etc to no longer be taxed, or at least not as heavily. Unfortunately the only people who don't pay taxes are those who leech off of the services the rich pay for.

Bar Stool Economics | Wise Bread

 

[miss fortune]

Mr Galt- if you are here to discuss and further your understanding of the MBTI why are you so rarely found in those threads? From a quick scanning of where you have posted, the Graveyard seems to be your preference, and that isn't exactly MBTI oriented.

 

[Mr Galt]

Mr Galt- if you are here to discuss and further your understanding of the MBTI why are you so rarely found in those threads? From a quick scanning of where you have posted, the Graveyard seems to be your preference, and that isn't exactly MBTI oriented.

I spend the majority of my time here lurking. I read everything. I don't always have something to say.

 

[ByMySword]

I don't think they earned it. That's where the main disagreance comes from.
Some times the level of wealth is so vast that I don't even think an one person CAN earn it.

Oh really? You know all the wealthy people and how they made their money? My mistake then.

Bullshit. All who participate in society are obligated to help fellow citizens. If you don't want to have any responsiblity for anyone else, then you can abandon society and all of its benefits.

Bullshit to YOU!!!!!!!!! I need only be responsible for myself. I abide by the law. I pay my taxes. What the government does with it is their business. But the fact that I pay them entitles me to the benefits alone.

No person has the right to tell me what I HAVE to contribute to society!!!! :steam:

 

[Kiddo]

Okay, then I put words in your mouth. If that's true, then you're essentially admitting that you judge people unfairly based on previous experiences with people who are tangentially similar. You can have your pick. .

Uh yeah, that is more or less what I said forever ago. I also said, that it is only an emotional reaction, and anyone who cares to read my posts pre-Texan invasion will find that I actually have a much more realistic view of right wing minded folks.

 

[miss fortune]

You always seem to have something to say in hate threads!


I actually have rarely seen you looking at other threads- and I watch for things like that- you seem more like a taker from this site than a giver. Your only contributions have been fairly divisive and graveyard quality (to generalize). I was just wondering why you are here since you so rarely contribute anything that's not in the graveyard or fluff zone.

 

[SillySapienne]

I spend the majority of my time here lurking. I read everything. I don't always have something to say.

I've been more of a lurker as of late too, and there is *nothing* wrong with that.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

It's easier for rich people to practice tax evasion. They practically already have stopped paying taxes, and they get perks, too!

I repeat that the proverb of earned wealth doesn't phase me, because I pretty much think it's just a proverb.

Further more, much like Jesus, I think there is a level of wealth that can earned by no one.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Oh really? You know all the wealthy people and how they made their money? My mistake then.

It was actually a philosphical notion, not an experiential one.

Bullshit to YOU!!!!!!!!! I need only be responsible for myself. I abide by the law. I pay my taxes. What the government does with it is their business. But the fact that I pay them entitles me to the benefits alone.

No person has the right to tell me what I HAVE to contribute to society!!!! :steam:

You're wrong. If you want to be entirely responsible for yourself, fine... Build your own house and power it with energy you create.
Otherwise... every single member of society you benefit from has the right to tell you what contribute to it. This includes things more complex than a simple flat tax.

 

[ThatsWhatHeSaid]

76 posts moved from the FREE UBER! Campaign.

STAY ON TOPIC, PEOPLE!

 

[EffEmDoubleyou]

Further more, much like Jesus, I think there is a level of wealth that can earned by no one.

Jesus also said to pay unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and pay unto God what is God's.

 

[Magic Poriferan]

Jesus also said to pay unto Caesar what is Caesar's, and pay unto God what is God's.

That's correct... But the argument here is once again about defining what really is "Caesar's".