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  1. #51
    Senior Member Mr Galt's Avatar
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    Hey, however you want to put it. Then there are very few true "libertarians" because most people either do value a "free market" or "social equality". Liberalism literally means a rejection of authority, so if you were truly liberal then you would be an anarchist. But all that doesn't matter since I know you value free market liberalism and are thus a right-wing minded person. Of course, you and your other "libertarian" buddies can prove me wrong by marching in a gay pride parade and sending me some pictures. If you demonstrate just as much social liberalism as you do free market liberalism, then I wouldn't be inclined to believe you lean to the right.
    The only reason I care more about the free market than I do about issues such as gay rights or abortion is that the latter two don't affect me NEARLY as much as the state of the economy. I simply support them on principle.
    But sir, your opinion is wrong.
    TANSTAAFL!

  2. #52
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo
    Hey, however you want to put it. Then there are very few true "libertarians" because most people either do value a "free market" or "social equality". Liberalism literally means a rejection of authority, so if you were truly liberal then you would be an anarchist. But all that doesn't matter since I know you value free market liberalism and are thus a right-wing minded person. Of course, you and your other "libertarian" buddies can prove me wrong by marching in a gay pride parade and sending me some pictures. If you demonstrate just as much social liberalism as you do free market liberalism, then I wouldn't be inclined to believe you lean to the right.
    Why does that matter? If I vote for the right to abortion, it doesn't count because I don't want the top 5% of the country to pay 60% of the taxes while many people don't pay any taxes (i.e. barely a citizen)? That's ridiculous.

    So we can't really be socially liberal because we don't want to screw the people who get paid well. Ok. Apparently you have to be a democratic socialist to have any liberal ideology.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  3. #53
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Metamorphosis View Post
    Why does that matter? If I vote for the right to abortion, it doesn't count because I don't want the top 5% of the country to pay 60% of the taxes while many people don't pay any taxes (i.e. barely a citizen)? That's ridiculous.
    Not to get off topic, but it is also ridiculous that the top 1% owns 33% of the nation's wealth and has enjoyed, since the 1970s, 94% of the nation's income growth.

    So we can't really be socially liberal because we don't want to screw the people who get paid well. Ok. Apparently you have to be a democratic socialist to have any liberal ideology.
    No, as I said before, social liberals aren't true "classical liberals" either. In case you hadn't noticed, life has gotten a bit more complicated since the 18th century and many of the concepts we deal with today could not have even been conceived of by the founding fathers. However, you could own a slave and subjugate women and still be a "classical liberal".
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  4. #54

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    I imagine it makes life a lot easier when you're able to intuit every one of a person's values, allegiances and sympathies simply from their birthplace and political persuasion. That's a neat trick.
    Everybody have fun tonight. Everybody Wang Chung tonight.

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  5. #55
    Per Ardua Metamorphosis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Not to get off topic, but it is also ridiculous that the top 1% owns 33% of the nation's wealth and has enjoyed, since the 1970s, 94% of the nation's income growth.
    Frankly, people aren't equal. What's ridiculous to me is social welfare policy that promotes not working, seperated families, and progressive taxation that excludes some people from paying anything.
    "You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

    Reason is, and ought only to be the slave of the passions, and can never pretend to any other office
    than to serve and obey them. - David Hume

  6. #56
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EffEmDoubleyou View Post
    I imagine it makes life a lot easier when you're able to intuit every one of a person's values, allegiances and sympathies simply from their birthplace and political persuasion. That's a neat trick.
    You forgot personality traits.

    I never said I "intuit every one of a person's values, allegiances and sympathies simply from their birthplace and political persuasion." I said I have an emotional reaction that leads me to overgeneralize or jest when confronted by those who who are right wing minded. I also have an emotional reaction to those who try to put words into my mouth, but I think I'll leave this thread before you see it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  7. #57
    ByMySword
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Not to get off topic, but it is also ridiculous that the top 1% owns 33% of the nation's wealth and has enjoyed, since the 1970s, 94% of the nation's income growth.
    And how did they get to be the 1%? They earned it.

    Plus, they pay the highest percent of taxes.

    Edit: Damnit. Meta already mentioned that fact.

  8. #58
    ByMySword
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    Is it just me, or does The Meta Group sound like a mutual funds company?

    Edit: And I love how two different conversations are going on at the same time.

  9. #59
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    Is it just me, or does The Meta Group sound like a mutual funds company?

    Edit: And I love how two different conversations are going on at the same time.
    Totally, and lol.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

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  10. #60
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ByMySword View Post
    And how did they get to be the 1%? They earned it.
    Over 80% who are in the top 1% were born into it. Of the less than 20% who graduated to the the top 1%, over half were in the top 5%. I believe the figure was 4-6% of those who are in the top 1% "earned" it. How of many those do you imagine are lottery winners? One of the biggest American myths is that the bottom can get to the top by tightening their boot straps and working hard. The statistics don't lie. America has low social mobility.

    Plus, they pay the highest percent of taxes.
    The top 1% who own 33% of the nation's wealth pay about 33% of the taxes. That is called paying your share.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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