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  1. #361
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    It can be a little difficult experiencing both at once.

    I think a lot of my issues came from dealing with extremes of Fe, feeling pressure from others and also pressure from myself because my actions inadvertently impacted them and there was no way to extract myself from that web. Like it or not, our behavior impacts those who are part of our lives. Sometimes it hurts them, even if we're honoring other values that need to be honored.

    But the Fi thing gives validity and confidence, as you said, to make choices for one's own life and honor oneself as well. There's a sense that the inner identify must be true if the external relationships are to be true as well, and that ultimately we are each responsible for our own lives regardless of how others behave. In the past, I think as soon as I got into a group context, I automatically was aware of myself through my awareness of how others perceived me; that really does screw with your head. Any sense of self was automatically jarred by other's perceptions, right or wrong, fair or unfair. The identity has to be stabilized within to some degree to withstand the pressures of external opinion.

    (Obviously you still see me intellectualizing all of this. I approach it this way not necessarily because Fi is instinctive but because it seems fair and "makes sense" to me when I look at the big picture.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #362
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    I can see the conflict you are describing...even in my own life.

    I suppose the argument I would make is that I find it offensive to imagine that I am more important than the bonds I share with my friends and family. I think that probably demonstrates my Fe bias. However, I am aware that I have to be secure enough in myself to know that I have rights and purpose that is all my own, and nobody should be allowed to violate that. And that is probably the essence of Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  3. #363
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I can see the conflict you are describing...even in my own life.

    I suppose the argument I would make is that I find it offensive to imagine that I am more important than the bonds I share with my friends and family. I think that probably demonstrates my Fe bias. However, I am aware that I have to be secure enough in myself to know that I have rights and purpose that is all my own, and nobody should be allowed to violate that. And that is probably the essence of Fi.
    You have a very poor understanding of Fi, if you can imagine that an Fi domiant person (person whose dominant judging function is Fi) does not hold the bonds of those closest to them very dear. I won't hold a bond dear JUST BECAUSE the person happens to be family, it is more what they mean to me and our personal relationship, but I hold the bonds I value very dear and do what I can to accomedate those persons. I tend to go for intensive bonds rather than extensive ones, meaning I tend to pick a few select people and hold them up with loyalty, devotion and admiration.

  4. #364
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    You have a very poor understanding of Fi, if you can imagine that an Fi domiant person (person whose dominant judging function is Fi) does not hold the bonds of those closest to them very dear. I won't hold a bond dear JUST BECAUSE the person happens to be family, it is more what they mean to me and our personal relationship, but I hold the bonds I value very dear and do what I can to accomedate those persons. I tend to go for intensive bonds rather than extensive ones, meaning I tend to pick a few select people and hold them up with loyalty, devotion and admiration.
    My understanding comes from the discussion I had with my ENFP friend that I mentioned on the previous page. Could you go back and tell me where I got off track? It sounds like Jennifer understands where I am coming from, so I must not have a "very poor understanding".
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #365
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    My understanding comes from the discussion I had with my ENFP friend that I mentioned on the previous page. Could you go back and tell me where I got off track? It sounds like Jennifer understands where I am coming from, so I must not have a "very poor understanding".
    I don't know how to be clearer here. You said that an Fi dom would hold themselves to be more imporant than their dearest bonds and that's just not true. I know it from my own personal experience. Unhealthy Fi would put their own ego glorification above everyone and anything else in life I think, but this would not be the rule for all Fi, especially those who put love of others as part of their higher purpose.

    I would never put my own wants above the needs of a person I held to be dear and close to me.

  6. #366
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I don't know how to be clearer here. You said that an Fi dom would hold themselves to be more imporant than their dearest bonds and that's just not true. I know it from my own personal experience. Unhealthy Fi would put their own ego glorification above everyone and anything else in life I think, but this would not be the rule.

    I would never put my own wants above the needs of a person I held to be dear and close to me.
    I simply asked you to go to the post I made prior to that one so that you could understand where I am coming from. That post is an oversimplification unless you understand the prior reasoning.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  7. #367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    I simply asked you to go to the post I made prior to that one so that you could understand where I am coming from. That post is an oversimplification unless you understand the prior reasoning.
    I had already read that. No matter what the prior reasoning, the conclusion is in error.

  8. #368
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    I had already read that. No matter what the prior reasoning, the conclusion is in error.
    That isn't a conclusion, just an observance in conflict within my life that I percieve as Fe and Fi related. Feel free to ignore that and tell me how I am wrong in my conclusions in the prior post. Is my understanding of Fi in that post, "very poor"? If so, then please explain how so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
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  9. #369
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    II can't really decide which would be superior to the other since they are so fundamentally different. If you are talking about identity, as in the character and attributes that are composed and asserted from a person's very entity, then Fi is superior.

    If you are talking about interdependence, as in how everything and everyone is connected and how those bonds are nurtured through self control and dedication to ideals, then Fe is superior.
    Fi's can control themselves just fine via internal judgement. They may very well work with others in a interdepdent way, it is just they will not accept a popular tenent until they have run it through their own values and reasoning and accept it based on their own internal judgment. They can become just as devoted to an idea, it is just that their coming to value that idea is based on internal measures and not external pressures to conform.

    I see nothing in your line of reasoning here that justifies saying that Fi holds themselves as more important than loved ones and friends.

  10. #370
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    Quote Originally Posted by heart View Post
    Fi's can control themselves just fine via internal judgement. They may very well work with others in a interdepdent way, it is just they will not accept a popular tenent until they have run it through their own values and reasoning and accept it based on their own internal judgment. They can become just as devoted to an idea, it is just that their coming to value that idea is based on internal measures and not external pressures to conform.

    I see nothing in your line of reasoning here that justifies saying that Fi holds themselves as more important than loved ones and friends.
    I've said to simply ignore that post. I'll openly admit I may be wrong to draw such a vague conclusion based on my perceptions of the conflict in my life. Is there some reason you refuse to discuss my reasoning in the prior post? Do you find my reasoning in that prior to be sound or not?

    It seems to me that you don't really want to discuss it, you are just looking for an argument. I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm not going to give you one.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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