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  1. #321
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Whoa, you totally misread that.

    I wasn't talking about the family of the guy who was hung. I was talking about a similar situation with another family and another guy. I don't have to personally know someone to empathize with them.
    Okay, still, I need never know any man who was *actually* hanged, nor his family personally, to empathize about what he, i.e. any man, may, or must have felt prior to his death.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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  2. #322
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Okay, still, I need never know a man personally, who was *actually* hung to empathize about what he may, or must have felt prior to his death.
    On reflection, I do admit that had I no experience with hanging whatsoever, then I might not be able to empathize with somebody who was being hung, or I would be very limited in doing so. Are you saying that an Fi person with no experience with hanging whatsoever would be different in that respect?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #323
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    If you say that, then you are overcomplicating feeling. Teaching is not without reasoning. Fe would be about how you felt about your mother, how you felt about your church, or how you felt about your street gang..
    How is Feeling defined? Tell me which part here includes this strange reasoning you speak of?

    feeling - Definitions from Dictionary.com



    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    When it comes to understanding feelings outside of feelings, I agree I reflect on community standards, but not the standards themselves, only how I feel about them. ..
    When you speak of how you feel 'about them' you step outside of the province of Fe. Of course no Fe person never steps outside of those standards, he would not do so had he been a pure type, which you obviously are not. But take a look at the more quintissential Fe types, like the ESFJ and the ISFJ. Sure they step outside of the community standards they endorse, but not as frequently as the NFJs. This furthemore adduces to my point that Fe as a faculty in itself is convention worshipping.







    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    It's 3 in the morning. I'm going to bed. But don't think you are getting off easy.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #324
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    On reflection, I do admit that had I no experience with hanging whatsoever, then I might not be able to empathize with somebody who was being hung, or I would be very limited in doing so. Are you saying that an Fi person with no experience with hanging whatsoever would be different in that respect?


    " I need never know any man who was *actually* hanged, nor his family personally, to empathize about what he, i.e. any man, may, or must have felt prior to his death."
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  5. #325
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    If ever I ask you to be brutally frank with me, I want you to disregard my question and tell me beautiful lies.
    Lol, then why ask me to be brutally frank with you?!?!?
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  6. #326
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    How is Feeling defined? Tell me which part here includes this strange reasoning you speak of?

    feeling - Definitions from Dictionary.com

    When you speak of how you feel 'about them' you step outside of the province of Fe. Of course no Fe person never steps outside of those standards, he would not do so had he been a pure type, which you obviously are not. But take a look at the more quintissential Fe types, like the ESFJ and the ISFJ. Sure they step outside of the community standards they endorse, but not as frequently as the NFJs. This furthemore adduces to my point that Fe as a faculty in itself is convention worshipping.
    It isn't reasoning. Let me explain it from how I experience it. I just feel the things I pick up from the environment. Let's take the example of the man being hung and imagine I had no experience like it before. When I get their I would immediately absorb the feelings of the tension of the crowd, the shock the crowd felt when the execution was over, the sadness of the family, etc. I absorb the memories of feelings infinitely better than the memories of actual events. The next time I would go to a hanging, I would not even need a crowd or the family there. All those feelings from the first hanging would come back in a rush and I would be able to empathize with the situation much better. I would have prior experience with which to substantiate my feelings.

    Would you call that convention worshiping?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  7. #327
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post


    " I need never know any man who was *actually* hung, nor his family personally, to empathize about what he, i.e. any man, may, or must have felt prior to his death."
    But that seems so...impersonal. Your feelings would be based on speculation rather than on prior memories of feelings you had in similar experiences or on feelings you picked up from those around you. Nothing of you would be involved in the emphasizing. How is that "direct empathy"? I would rather not feel at all than try to empathize on speculation. It seems so...yucky.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  8. #328
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Functions of Type by Hartzler & Hartzler:

    Fi: The Conscience
    "The Introverted Feeling (Fi) function in each of us organizes our values to maintain personal integrity. But until the function develops somewhat, the values are primarily unconscious and the person find it difficult to articulate them. However, it still knows that people are important."

    Fe: The Guide
    "The Extraverted Feeling (Fe) part of each of us coordinates people and things to harmoniously achieve group and individual goals. Initiating, building, and maintaining personal relationships is a primary goal of the Guide."

  9. #329
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    But that seems so...impersonal. Your feelings would be based on speculation rather than on prior memories of feelings you had in similar experiences or on feelings you picked up from those around you. Nothing of you would be involved in the emphasizing. How is that "direct empathy"? I would rather not feel at all than try to empathize on speculation. It seems so...yucky.
    I thought you were going beddy-bye?

    Back to the subject at hand.

    I would say that I need not have my throat slit to actually viscerally feel/imagine what it would feel like to have my throat slit.

    It's hard to explain but I viscerally and intuitively imagine how something would feel, and in turn, feel it.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  10. #330
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    I thought you were going beddy-bye?

    Back to the subject at hand.

    I would say that I need not have my throat slit to actually viscerally feel/imagine what it would feel like to have my throat slit.

    It's hard to explain but I viscerally and intuitively imagine how something would feel, and in turn, feel it.
    Yuck Yuck Yuck Yuck Yuck Yuck Yuck!

    I tried to intuitively imagine what that would be like and it made me sick. It is still speculative, but I guess I can see where you are coming from. And upon reflection, I suppose that absorbing feelings from others could also be considered speculative.

    But that does explain a lot of things. Like the last time I saw protesters at a Gay Pride parade, they were trying so hard to convince the gay people that they were unhappy because they were gay. I wanted to know how they could be so certain how others feel and now I know. Fi is scary.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

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