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  1. #311
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Grrrrrrr!!!


    Fi abhors moral relativism.
    Yes, as I have mentioned in my previous post, Fi abhors relativism because it seeks to explore the nature of feelings and morality on its own endeavor primarily through empathy. Whilst Fe tends to be relativistic because the morality it endorses is relative to the community it inhabits. 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do!'
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #312
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Think about this. Say an Fi and Fe character see a man publicly hung. Fe will say OUUHH THAT IS cruel because my mother taught me so. An Fi man will feel ouuh that must have been strangling on his neck, how must he have felt at the last moments of his life, did he think of his kids, his wife, mother, sibblings, etc? He empathizes directly. How you figure that this way is somehow less ethically wholesome than the earlier described Fe way is beyond me..
    The moon must be full because I am absolutely *feeling* what you're saying tonight!!

    An Fi man will feel ouuh that must have been strangling on his neck, how must he have felt at the last moments of his life, did he think of his kids, his wife, mother, sibblings, etc? He empathizes directly


    ^That is so spot on it's ridiculous!!!

    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

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  3. #313
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Think about this. Say an Fi and Fe character see a man publicly hung. Fe will say OUUHH THAT IS cruel because my mother taught me so. An Fi man will feel ouuh that must have been strangling on his neck, how must he have felt at the last moments of his life, did he think of his kids, his wife, mother, sibblings, etc? He empathizes directly. How you figure that this way is somehow less ethically wholesome than the earlier described Fe way is beyond me..
    That was kindof a hyperbole. Obviously you think very lowly of Fe.

    I would never think anything as stupid as "that is wrong because my mother said so." My feelings on the issue would be based on my own reasoning and on prior similar experiences I had accumulated in my framework. For example, if I had ever hurt my neck, then my line of reasoning would be, "ouuh that must have been strangling on his neck" or if I had known the family of a guy who had been hung then I might think, "how must he have felt at the last moments of his life, did he think of his kids, his wife, mother, sibblings." So I would emphasize based on my own past experiences.

    Now Fi sound inauthentic to me because it claims to "emphasize directly" but in reality, it doesn't sound like Fi relates anything to personal experience. To the contrary, it makes expectations of how things should or probably feel.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  4. #314
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Whilst Fe tends to be relativistic because the morality it endorses is relative to the community it inhabits. 'When in Rome, do as the Romans do!'
    Once again I am calling BS. I grew up in Red Neck, small town, Wyoming and from a young age I was a liberal, environmentalist, hippy kid. My family is even mostly Republicans and Independents. My views came from my personal experiences, not form the "community". I think you might have a limited view of Fe. It is not dictated by "society" or "community" but by reasoning from prior experiences.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  5. #315
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    my own reasoning and on prior similar experiences I had accumulated in my framework..
    When you speak of 'reasoning' you take the matter outside of the province of Feeling, therefore render it irrelevant to the matter of Fe. Fe in its own right is indeed all about your mother, your church, or your street gang taught you.



    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Now Fi sound inauthentic to me because it claims to "emphasize directly" but in reality, it doesn't sound like Fi relates anything to personal experience. To the contrary, it makes expectations of how things should or probably feel.
    Hmm..I think it is a terribly unreasonable expectation that if you say ouch after being pierced that you be hurting! I better rectify this by asking others how you must have felt instead of going to figure on my own!
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  6. #316
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Once again I am calling BS. I grew up in Red Neck, small town, Wyoming and from a young age I was a liberal, environmentalist, hippy kid. My family is even mostly Republicans and Independents. My views came from my personal experiences, not form the "community". I think you might have a limited view of Fe. It is not dictated by "society" or "community" but by reasoning from prior experiences.

    Thank your Ni-Ti for this, not Fe, Kiddo.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  7. #317
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    For example, if I had ever hurt my neck, then my line of reasoning would be, "ouuh that must have been strangling on his neck" or if I had known the family of a guy who had been hung then I might think, "how must he have felt at the last moments of his life, did he think of his kids, his wife, mother, sibblings." So I would emphasize based on my own past experiences.
    And therein lies the difference between you and me, or Fe and Fi.

    We need not personally know the man nor his family to *directly* empathize with him.
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

    Intelligentle sparkles

  8. #318
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    And therein lies the difference between you and me, or Fe and Fi.

    We need not personally know the man nor his family to *directly* empathize with him.
    Whoa, you totally misread that.

    I wasn't talking about the family of the guy who was hung. I was talking about a similar situation with another family and another guy. I don't have to personally know someone to empathize with them.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  9. #319
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    When you speak of 'reasoning' you take the matter outside of the province of Feeling, therefore render it irrelevant to the matter of Fe. Fe in its own right is indeed all about your mother, your church, or your street gang taught you.
    If you say that, then you are overcomplicating feeling. Teaching is not without reasoning. Fe would be about how you felt about your mother, how you felt about your church, or how you felt about your street gang. When it comes to understanding feelings outside of feelings, I agree I reflect on community standards, but not the standards themselves, only how I feel about them. Feeling just comes.

    Hmm..I think it is a terribly unreasonable expectation that if you say ouch after being pierced that you be hurting! I better rectify this by asking how others how you must have felt instead of going to figure on my own!
    Have you always lived in a bubble? I would think you would have relevant experience as far as pain before you could even walk.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Thank your Ni-Ti for this, not Fe, Kiddo.
    It's 3 in the morning. I'm going to bed. But don't think you are getting off easy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  10. #320
    & Badger, Ratty and Toad Mole's Avatar
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    If ever I ask you to be brutally frank with me, I want you to disregard my question and tell me beautiful lies.

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