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  1. #221
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    This is Fi out of control.

    Fi example.

    Notice how she acted despite how everyone else was acting. (subjective)

    This is Fe out of control.

    Fe example.

    Notice how she provided reasons and explanations for why she felt the way she did. (objective)

    Any questions?
    Jung uses the term objective to describe the extrovert showing that the extrovert orients around the object. He wasnt using objective in the vernacular.

    Fe derives values from the object. Fi from the subject. So Fe values human goodness because society values it, Fi because it appeals to her sensibilities.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  2. #222
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueWing View Post
    Jung uses the term objective to describe the extrovert showing that the extrovert orients around the object. He wasnt using objective in the vernacular.

    Fe derives values from the object. Fi from the subject. So Fe values human goodness because society values it, Fi because it appeals to her sensibilities.
    That is one way of interpreting it. Anyway, I'm basing my examples more on my experience than on the Jung descriptions.

    Are you saying that my examples are poor? Or do they still adequately demonstrate the difference?
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  3. #223
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    That is one way of interpreting it. Anyway, I'm basing my examples more on my experience than on the Jung descriptions.

    Are you saying that my examples are poor? Or do they still adequately demonstrate the difference?
    The point you had made was that Fe is better at explaining their behavior to others after they have lost control over their emotions than Fi.

    Only slightly so because Fe has more access to Thinking and secondly because Fe values are more easily understood by the public by and large because they derive their values from the public. Yet this grants Fe only a slight advantage at explaining behavior to others because doing so sucessfully requires primarily a Thinking skill. Fe only has slightly more access to Thinking, not a lot more.

    Your point is sound, namely that Fe has an easier time explaining behavior to others, though one important note to make in regards to this statement is that they will have only slightly of an easier time. This is the point you have ommited.

    Your post is not adequate to depict the salient differences between Fi and Fe because you have focused only on two aspects distinguishing the two. Namely that Fe is closer oriented with the external world and that it access Thinking more easily. This therefore does not shed light on the fundamental differences between the two types.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

  4. #224
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Well, the 'Fe' guy (yes, apparently that was a guy. It's hard to tell, but it was all over the news) was making a big deal about treating somebody nicely if they're having a hard time, while the 'Fi' woman was making a huge deal about her own personal beliefs without any effort to relate them to the context of the external world.

    I think that's about right.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  5. #225
    `~~Philosoflying~~` SillySapienne's Avatar
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    I guess I have Fi as my secondary function, whatever that's supposed to mean..

    But I have realized a trend...

    People who have Fe as their primary or secondary functions tend to make me go all...

    , , , , during arguments.

    Truth be told, I associate Fe with PC mongering lunacy/idiocy. (Sorry, I do).

    I am compassionate, not sympathetic, empathetic, not projective.

    I value other's feelings and opinions, but I value honesty and, "the Truth" of things, even more.

    How would I explain/define my Fi, well, lucky for me, Frank Herbert has already eloquently done so for me...

    "Respect for the truth comes close to being the basis for all morality."
    `
    'Cause you can't handle me...

    "A lie is a lie even if everyone believes it. The truth is the truth even if nobody believes it." - David Stevens

    "That that is, is. That that is not, is not. Is that it? It is."

    Veritatem dies aperit

    Ride si sapis

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  6. #226
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    This is Fi out of control.

    Fi example.

    Notice how she acted despite how everyone else was acting. (subjective)

    This is Fe out of control.

    Fe example.

    Notice how she provided reasons and explanations for why she felt the way she did. (objective)

    Any questions?
    i think those are some pretty good examples... the only thing is, i think the first lady is a tertiary Fi user (seems like an ISTJ).

  7. #227
    Don't Judge Me! Haphazard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dissonance View Post
    i think those are some pretty good examples... the only thing is, i think the first lady is a tertiary Fi user (seems like an ISTJ).
    The point is that they were supposed to explain what happens when Fi and Fe spiral out of control. The guy with Britney was probably not even an FJ, (just a wild guess) but was decrying getting along with other people -- which is quintessentially Fe.
    -Carefully taking sips from the Fire Hose of Knowledge

  8. #228
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    People who have Fe as their primary or secondary functions tend to make me go all...

    , , , , during arguments.

    Truth be told, I associate Fe with PC mongering lunacy/idiocy. (Sorry, I do).
    [URL]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tEBvftJUwDw&t=0s[/URL]

  9. #229
    Furry Critter with Claws Kiddo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainChick View Post
    Truth be told, I associate Fe with PC mongering lunacy/idiocy. (Sorry, I do).
    That is pretty close. Being politically correct means being sensitive to other's differences whether they be cultural, religious, ethnic, etc. And sensitivity is reacting appropriately to the emotions or situations of other people. When done verbally, this is known as tact. Sensitivity and tact are fundamental tenets of Fe.

    As Bluewing said, Fe focuses on making society better, whereas Fi is related to just making it's user happy. Fe users want others to accept their values, so society can be a better place for everyone whereas Fi users could care less what others think of their values because their values only serve to make them happy.

    Personally, I associate Fi with closeminded and needless attacking of differences which translates into lunacy/idiocy.

    Just as Fe can be associated with being overly PC, Fi is associated with bigotry. So Fe users will usually find Fi users to be intolerant and prejudiced and Fi users will find Fe users to be imposing and coercive. Transcending the Fi/Fe barrier is something I've noticed that even the most intelligent posters have little success with doing. As a result, most debate threads end up with the NTPs and NFJs against the NTJs and NFPs. It's one of the most recognizable patterns on this forum.

    In simple terms, it is a battle between the value constructs of tolerance (Fe) and morality (Fi). Taken to the extreme, tolerance can be seen as inherently immoral by Fi users, and morality can be seen as inherently intolerant by Fe users.
    Quote Originally Posted by Silently Honest View Post
    OMNi: Wisdom at the cost of Sanity.

  10. #230
    Tenured roisterer SolitaryWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    That is pretty close. Being politically correct means being sensitive to other's differences whether they be cultural, religious, ethnic, etc. And sensitivity is reacting appropriately to the emotions or situations of other people. When done verbally, this is known as tact. Sensitivity and tact are fundamental tenets of Fe. .
    These are fundamental tenets of Feeling. Not only Fe.

    The salient difference between Fe and Fi is that the former derives its values from society and the latter from the individual. Naturally the former has more loyalty to the individual than to the society and latter vice versa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    As Bluewing said, Fe focuses on making society better, whereas Fi is related to just making it's user happy. Fe users want others to accept their values, so society can be a better place for everyone whereas Fi users could care less what others think of their values because their values only serve to make them happy. .
    Only corrupt Fi behaves in the fashion you've described, it becomes slave of the ego analogously to how Fe becomes slave of the object.

    Sound Fi is concerned with the welfare of the individual by and large, it asks questions most akin to how is my life best lived? It appeals to all individuals not just the individual asking the question.

    Soren Kierkegaard exemplifies this phenomenon. Unsound Fi will be egocentric just like unsound Fe shall prostitute the inner being in favor of the community.

    Personally, I associate Fi with closeminded and needless attacking of differences which translates into lunacy/idiocy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kiddo View Post
    Just as Fe can be associated with being overly PC, Fi is associated with bigotry..
    Bigotry is usually a result of groupthink. As Nietzsche said, insanity in individuals is rare, but in groups more common. No individual, no matter how obtuse would endorse tenets akin to racism or sexism or any other prominent forms of bigotry. Fe is therefore in closer affinity with bigotry as this function is more likely to give into groupthink.
    "Do not argue with an idiot. They drag you down to their level and beat you with experience." -- Mark Twain

    “No man but a blockhead ever wrote, except for money.”---Samuel Johnson

    My blog: www.randommeanderings123.blogspot.com/

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