Pictorial Guide to the Se/Si Distinction

[EJCC]

And I appreciate it! You showed me something I didn't even pause to consider but which makes a lot of sense now that I think about itHuh. You may be right. I wonder if it's bossy Ne taking over? Because I'm finding it quite difficult to remember a time when Si-preference hasn't been accompanied by this.

I know what you mean. I tend to get Fi and Te mixed up in my mind, when I'm describing myself (not others; it's easier when I detach), because my Te is so often motivated by my Fi. More often than not, my Te would not act without my Fi to tell it why it needs to act.

On the other hand, I have a very easy time separating Ne and Si, because I have experienced the Te-Ne loop. Lemme find a post where I describe it...
Edit: Here it is! And I should add that what Si would have added to that situation would have been to make a priority list based on previous knowledge of what a proper priority list should be. Ne, on the other hand, was too busy going from one fun idea to the next to know which one of those fun ideas should go first. Memories of times when priority lists have been needed, cautionary tales relating to similar things, strong visions of possible consequences based on previous experience -- all in Si's jurisdiction -- had no impact on Ne.

 

[EJCC]

Another thing: I'm not sure how non-SJs (and non-Te users) use Si compared to this, but in my experience Si doesn't show itself to tell you how something's supposed to look, unless something doesn't look right. Otherwise, everything is normal and not really taken into consideration. You don't need Si to tell you what something looks like if you can just look at it and see for yourself.

 

[Mal12345]

Si auxiliary, from what I've experienced, believes that past results guarantee future performance. There is also a certain aspect of living on the edge.

 

[Thalassa]

SI DOMS, TO THE BATMOBILE! SHOW US WHAT YOUR MIND LOOKS LIKE!!!

I tried. He said his mind just doesn't work that way...meaning he understands completely what Si is, and that he does it, and here are examples of Si...but no symbolic pictures.

Sorry.

 

[EJCC]

Si auxiliary, from what I've experienced, believes that past results guarantee future performance. There is also a certain aspect of living on the edge.

ESTJs and ESFJs living on the edge?

The first sentence is correct, in a limited sense, i.e. that it's more complex than just "performance" and "results". I stick with my descriptions from a couple of posts ago.

 

[011235813]

I tried. He said his mind just doesn't work that way...meaning he understands completely what Si is, and that he does it, and here are examples of Si...but no symbolic pictures.

Sorry.

It's okay. I'll just pretend I know what they're thinking about.

 

[Mal12345]

ESTJs and ESFJs living on the edge?

The first sentence is correct, in a limited sense, i.e. that it's more complex than just "performance" and "results". I stick with my descriptions from a couple of posts ago.

If you believe that Si is strictly a cognitive style (something to do with being past oriented), then you can't be seeing this in terms of a personality type. But to me, cognitive function analysis is a very limited pursuit.

ESTJ and ESFJ live on the edge in a limited, more cognitive sense. I didn't say it was as lifestyle per se. When Si comes forward as a helping function, everything is seen as a matter of life or death, values (rules and such) are taken as black and white with no room for compromise. But no, they won't go base-jumping or driving the Nascar circuit for a living when Si is merely playing the auxiliary role; quite the opposite. The ESTJ or ESFJ will imagine all kinds of horrible scenarios if, for example, little Johnnie does not come in before curfew.

 

[lunalum]

It seems the confusion with the pictures in the OP is that they focus on sensation seeking in more of the thrill seeker sense. Sensing is more about taking in the world and information as it is, not the rush of sports and amusement parks. I do understand about the Se/Si difference dealing with perceiving the world in breadth and perceiving the world in depth... but it doesn't quite match up with a lot of the images here.

Now this looks more like an Si-ish (almost Ni-like) perspective.

 

[Thalassa]

It's okay. I'll just pretend I know what they're thinking about.

NVM.

I erased it because it's too specific and might perpetuate stereotypes.

 

[011235813]

ISTJs and ISFJs who somehow manage to mimic Se-appreciation (some sense of physical adventurousness and a deep appreciation of aesthetics among other things): do you think you can explain what's going on to this clueless bystander? I know the qualities I listed shouldn't be attributed to Se alone, I just want to know how you experience them and why they're satisfying.

Or am I barking up the wrong tree? Do I actually have a bunch of INXJs on my hands?

 

[Thalassa]

Playing sports or being physical and having a sense of aesthetics isn't Se. Se is a functional attitude of having a deep appreciation for reality and new experiences and enjoying things that are satisfying to the senses, as well as making an immediate "impact" on others and being inclined to react to or act on the immediate environment.

Si types can have a highly developed sense of aesthetics, and may be VERY particular about their aesthetics. I don't know if you saw my examples before I deleted it, but they can enjoy a very specific kind of sensory stimulus, and want things to look or sound or smell or taste a VERY PARTICULAR WAY. Si types are just as inclined toward sports or exercise as an Se type could be, but with the Si type there is probably going to be more of an emphasis on precision of technique.

Se doesn't own aesthetics, and can easily be related to Si and/or Fi.

 

[011235813]

Playing sports or being physical and having a sense of aesthetics isn't Se. Se is a functional attitude of having a deep appreciation for reality and new experiences and enjoying things that are satisfying to the senses, as well as making an immediate "impact" on others and being inclined to react to or act on the immediate environment.

Si types can have a highly developed sense of aesthetics, and may be VERY particular about their aesthetics. I don't know if you saw my examples before I deleted it, but they can enjoy a very specific kind of sensory stimulus, and want things to look or sound or smell or taste a VERY PARTICULAR WAY. Si types are just as inclined toward sports or exercise as an Se type could be, but with the Si type there is probably going to be more of an emphasis on precision of technique.

Se doesn't own aesthetics, and can easily be related to Si and/or Fi.

Didn't get a chance to look at your examples, unfortunately.

Anyway, in the two cases I'm thinking of, precision and perfection don't seem to be at stake when they're playing sports or having fun with art and crafts. These are activities that, so far as I can tell, the people in question are doing just because it's their small way of letting go and living in the moment (and this is something that both of them struggle to do at most times.) Nor do these activities seem to be driven by any purpose other than to unwind, which is highly unusual as both people are very precise, organised individuals who have very good reasons for nearly everything they do, and love to plan ahead.

On the other hand, I haven't received any startling inklings of Ni-preference from them.

 

[Thalassa]

Well if they're very organized and precise planners and you don't see any hints of Ni, then those may just be their releases, their hobbies they do to relax. An Si dom isn't going to be a precise control freak 24/7, it's more of an attitude of subjective meaning to sensory impressions and a preference for linear thinking.

 

[jixmixfix]

Playing sports or being physical and having a sense of aesthetics isn't Se. Se is a functional attitude of having a deep appreciation for reality and new experiences and enjoying things that are satisfying to the senses, as well as making an immediate "impact" on others and being inclined to react to or act on the immediate environment.

Si types can have a highly developed sense of aesthetics, and may be VERY particular about their aesthetics. I don't know if you saw my examples before I deleted it, but they can enjoy a very specific kind of sensory stimulus, and want things to look or sound or smell or taste a VERY PARTICULAR WAY. Si types are just as inclined toward sports or exercise as an Se type could be, but with the Si type there is probably going to be more of an emphasis on precision of technique.

Se doesn't own aesthetics, and can easily be related to Si and/or Fi.

playing sports and enjoying asthetics is Se because it comes with all those sensations precision and technique isn't really "SI" it's more Ti. When I do something physical Im always thinking about it first so I get every single angel of it perfect, that's a very Ti trait.

 

[Thalassa]

Aesthetics and sports are not Se. Se and Si are functional attitudes, not actions.

That's just crazy talk.

 

[011235813]

Well, I honestly don't see either Si or Ni in them, which is primarily because I still don't understand either function very well. What I get visibly from these two is loads and loads of Te/Fi -- the other stuff is more difficult to get at and pick apart and they either get abstruse or dismissive when I try to investigate.

Patches once talked about her approach to video games - even though it's her form of release, she still needs to go through all the levels and win all the trophies and unlock all the achievements or it's just not satisfactory for her. I don't mean to suggest that all ISTJs are exactly the same by any means, but that doesn't sound anything like what my friends do.

I'm still pretty sure they are actually ISTJs. I JUST WANT TO PICK THEIR BRAINS APART.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Playing sports or being physical and having a sense of aesthetics isn't Se. Se is a functional attitude of having a deep appreciation for reality and new experiences and enjoying things that are satisfying to the senses, as well as making an immediate "impact" on others and being inclined to react to or act on the immediate environment.

Si types can have a highly developed sense of aesthetics, and may be VERY particular about their aesthetics. I don't know if you saw my examples before I deleted it, but they can enjoy a very specific kind of sensory stimulus, and want things to look or sound or smell or taste a VERY PARTICULAR WAY. Si types are just as inclined toward sports or exercise as an Se type could be, but with the Si type there is probably going to be more of an emphasis on precision of technique.

Se doesn't own aesthetics, and can easily be related to Si and/or Fi.

"Emphasis on precision of technique"? You think so? Maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong perspective... but using an example from earlier tonight... I was trying to demonstrate to an ESTJ friend of mine how to knit. When I do activities like knitting or making bracelets, etc. I focus heavily, no only on the moment and act of creating, but perfecting my technique in how I make them. I was trying to explain how to hold her hands, the needles and yarn, and how she needs to be using the three together to create a better flow. This is one of the aspects I enjoy in these hobbies. Maybe I'm utilizing Si during these hobbies? But I always thought it was Se in a focused way.

 

[Thalassa]

"Emphasis on precision of technique"? You think so? Maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong perspective... but using an example from earlier tonight... I was trying to demonstrate to an ESTJ friend of mine how to knit. When I do activities like knitting or making bracelets, etc. I focus heavily, no only on the moment and act of creating, but perfecting my technique in how I make them. I was trying to explain how to hold her hands, the needles and yarn, and how she needs to be using the three together to create a better flow. This is one of the aspects I enjoy in these hobbies. Maybe I'm utilizing Si during these hobbies? But I always thought it was Se in a focused way.

Hmm well when I am cooking I need for things to be a very particular way, part of cooking well is having patience and technique...in my mind, I don't understand how people cook badly, because to me it seems like a matter of caring and paying attention and learning certain techniques...meanwhile, some people burn boiled eggs or ramen lol. I enjoy the sensory experience of cooking, like I just enjoy it, it relaxes me, but of course doing it a certain way and employing certain techniques is imperitive to doing it well.

Perhaps what it is in an emphasis on SYSTEMS. In my experience, Si doms want things to be A CERTAIN WAY. And precision does come along with that, there is a particular way this should be. My ISTJ will freak out if someone else washes his designer jeans, because there is a certain way to wash them to keep them looking right. He notices crumbs on the counter from across the room. He wants his pants to fit a very particular way. His taste in music is very particular, he's very picky.

And with Si doms, because of their attachment of deep subjective meaning to sensory imput, this can make them highly honed in on the details of that which they care about. And this is why I say precision. It may not be an objective precision but it is a subjective precision.

 

[Sunny Ghost]

This is kind of how I see all introverted functions to work, be it Fi, Si, Ni, Ti.

This is how I see ESFJ's.

Is this subjective Si?

Si:

Se:

Si or Fi-dom + Se:

Whereas Se-dom:

 

[Sunny Ghost]

Hmm well when I am cooking I need for things to be a very particular way, part of cooking well is having patience and technique...in my mind, I don't understand how people cook badly, because to me it seems like a matter of caring and paying attention and learning certain techniques...meanwhile, some people burn boiled eggs or ramen lol. I enjoy the sensory experience of cooking, like I just enjoy it, it relaxes me, but of course doing it a certain way and employing certain techniques is imperitive to doing it well.

Perhaps what it is in an emphasis on SYSTEMS. In my experience, Si doms want things to be A CERTAIN WAY. And precision does come along with that, there is a particular way this should be. My ISTJ will freak out if someone else washes his designer jeans, because there is a certain way to wash them to keep them looking right. He notices crumbs on the counter from across the room. He wants his pants to fit a very particular way. His taste in music is very particular, he's very picky.

And with Si doms, because of their attachment of deep subjective meaning to sensory imput, this can make them highly honed in on the details of that which they care about. And this is why I say precision. It may not be an objective precision but it is a subjective precision.

aaah. now i understand.