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Pictorial Guide to the Se/Si Distinction

Giggly

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Can we get more pics of Si in here? Se is fairly clear to me. I think mal is correct when he says that Si is concerned with the focused intensity of a sensory experience and Se has to do with variety of sensory experiences. This is what I read about it as well. Si does not only have to do with order and detail, but it can easily entail that. Se does not only have to do with pushing the limits, but it can easily entail that. Given that, some of mal's Si pics are accurate. I think Se or Si both can be explored alone or with others which makes it hard to identify which is being used.

It's because of all the function talk that goes on around here, that has more to do with thinking methods than behaviors or personalities. It is raised to such a level of abstractedness as to lose all touch with reality.

Yes it is very abstract.

Jung doesn't talk about the Si living in accordance with the past. So I take it some other theorist along the way decided that was the case.

I wonder who and what it's about because that thought is something I always see associated with Si.




A witch silhouette.....But I'm curious to know, from your ISFJ perspective, what do you think is going on in that picture?

My first thought was that it was a witch who was frolicking around by herself. I didn't take it much further than that before reading what you had to say about it.
 

Mal12345

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i'd associate both of those with se, they're people connecting with the environment through thrill-seeking activities.

Do you think the Si type connects only with the insides of their own skulls? It's what they do with the information that matters. The information (such as the sensation of skydiving) is internalized and intensified. The experience is also very personal. Someone mentioned life versus death. To bring one's consciousness closer to the brink is the goal here. In this way, the Si may be said, in Jung's own terms, to confront the archaic imagery. A witch hanging from a flying broomstick with one hand 100 feet up while grabbing for one's hat with the other is definitely representative of such an experience.

Psychologically, it's now just a matter of identifying the "archaic imagery." Jung states that the object of the Si consciousness is downgraded in favor of the representative image. While the Si type appears to be pursuing real-world values and goals, the real goal is internal, personal and intensely subjective.

Someone might whine that a skydiver or base-jumper might be Se, and so might be doing it for Se reasons. Of course. And a Ti scientist I know flew in a glider 100,000 feet in the sky. He said he learned a lot about aerodynamics and gravity from the experience. That, however, is not the goal of the Se, or the Si. The Se is interested solely in the pure experience itself. The Si is interested in, perhaps, conquering an internal demon such as fear of heights. The Si might be interested in confronting the issue of life and death head on. The Si wants to make fear a reality, and then make it his personal bitch.
 

nanook

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i roughly agree with all you say there.

i'd wish you would notice, how i was contributing to the thread, by instructing the reader about how there are different ways of looking at the image, and what way leads to the pattern you have in mind (looking at what is IN the image), and what way leads to a different result (symbolism). verry helpfull for intuitives, who by default look at the image as such, as a symbol or a piece of communication between photographer and object or any number of other crazy things, instead of jumping into the frame and having the experience, which is depicted in the image.

not whining, not killing you thread, not over analysing, my dear, just helping out

love your topic, you know? its allmost hard to come around interesting threads about typology, these days.

wildly appreaciate your effort with the pics in the first posting
 

nanook

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i have been asked in a reputation about what Pi means.
Pi means both Ni and Si = P is for perception
Ji is for introverted judgement (T or F)
Je ... extroverded judgement
 

chickpea

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Do you think the Si type connects only with the insides of their own skulls? It's what they do with the information that matters. The information (such as the sensation of skydiving) is internalized and intensified. The experience is also very personal. Someone mentioned life versus death. To bring one's consciousness closer to the brink is the goal here. In this way, the Si may be said, in Jung's own terms, to confront the archaic imagery. A witch hanging from a flying broomstick with one hand 100 feet up while grabbing for one's hat with the other is definitely representative of such an experience.

Psychologically, it's now just a matter of identifying the "archaic imagery." Jung states that the object of the Si consciousness is downgraded in favor of the representative image. While the Si type appears to be pursuing real-world values and goals, the real goal is internal, personal and intensely subjective.

Someone might whine that a skydiver or base-jumper might be Se, and so might be doing it for Se reasons. Of course. And a Ti scientist I know flew in a glider 100,000 feet in the sky. He said he learned a lot about aerodynamics and gravity from the experience. That, however, is not the goal of the Se, or the Si. The Se is interested solely in the pure experience itself. The Si is interested in, perhaps, conquering an internal demon such as fear of heights. The Si might be interested in confronting the issue of life and death head on. The Si wants to make fear a reality, and then make it his personal bitch.

okay, sure, but the se pictures you posted aren't any different other than the fact that other people are in the photo. you can be confronting your personal fears while on a roller coaster sitting next to someone just as much as you could when you're alone. sorry, i just don't think they're the best pictures to help anyone understand the functions because they're misleading. it's not social/individual, it's external/internal.
 

Giggly

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Those who think ALL of those pics are Se, I'd like to see which kind of pics you would post for Si?
 

Mal12345

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i roughly agree with all you say there.

i'd wish you would notice, how i was contributing to the thread, by instructing the reader about how there are different ways of looking at the image, and what way leads to the pattern you have in mind (looking at what is IN the image), and what way leads to a different result (symbolism). verry helpfull for intuitives, who by default look at the image as such, as a symbol or a piece of communication between photographer and object or any number of other crazy things, instead of jumping into the frame and having the experience, which is depicted in the image.

not whining, not killing you thread, not over analysing, my dear, just helping out

love your topic, you know? its allmost hard to come around interesting threads about typology, these days.

wildly appreaciate your effort with the pics in the first posting

There is something strangely PersN about your post about Pi and Pe. I haven't had a chance to read everything here because of daddy things I have to take care of at home.

I'm sure there are different ways of looking at images. That's why I asked Giggly to give me her impression of the witch. But for the most part I am directing the manner of viewing the images. The images are not the goal and neither are the subjective impressions. Images are for instructing on the two principles I'm presenting.

For example, let's say I am teaching a physics class on constant functions. I show a video demonstrating their real purpose by showing how the raindrops hitting the windshield of a car appear to increase in frequency when the car speeds up, and then appear to slow down when the car comes to a stop.

However, my physics students only want to figure out what kind of car it is, and to reminisce about similar cars they've seen in the past. They want to joke about how the driver might get pulled over for driving so fast in the video, or criticize his driving skills, or gossip about how some other student's mom got pulled over the other day for exactly the same thing. And then the class becomes all about their impressions from the video, and they learn nothing about constants from the demonstration.
 

Mal12345

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okay, sure, but the se pictures you posted aren't any different other than the fact that other people are in the photo. you can be confronting your personal fears while on a roller coaster sitting next to someone just as much as you could when you're alone. sorry, i just don't think they're the best pictures to help anyone understand the functions because they're misleading. it's not social/individual, it's external/internal.

It's not primarily about the pictures, it's primarily about using them to represent my definitions of Si and Se.
 

nanook

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what i love about the car race, form an Pi perspective is that all the racing cars are such individualists by desing. a unit arriving at intensity by means of posture, figure, intrinsic character.

i could picture myself as a child, getting my hands on a sticker from one of those cars, puting it on my bike, imagining that my bike is a car, imagining that i am a grown up, and that i am a particular race driver, someone who's personality talks to me, the knight rider or what ever.

i would love one or two cars, that have something in common, which has meaning to me, and mostly ignore the rest ...
data about the most powerfull engine would bore me to death.

in contrast the roller coaster is empty ... of posture.
 

Mal12345

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Those who think ALL of those pics are Se, I'd like to see which kind of pics you would post for Si?

Based on something someone was saying here yesterday:
red-eyed_tree_frog_on_leaf_600-01172165.jpg
 

Giggly

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lol! That was [MENTION=7278]jixmixfix[/MENTION]

I was trying to really grasp what he was saying but the discussion got cut short.

Why the frog on the lily pad again?
 

Mal12345

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lol! That was [MENTION=7278]jixmixfix[/MENTION]

I was trying to really grasp what he was saying but the discussion got cut short.

Why the frog on the lily pad again?

ISxPs tend to do best when focusing on one task at a time, gathering information while still staying passive requiring little or no movement. The reason is because Si is more focused and "stable" version of Se based on the descriptions.

.
.
.
 
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011235813

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Those who think ALL of those pics are Se, I'd like to see which kind of pics you would post for Si?

Pictures that bring back particular associations. Could be food, familiar places, or a range of other things -- I guess the issue is that it's a matter of fitting that particular image in with your own internal patterns so it's going to differ from person to person.

I, for one, found the carousel picture listed as Se to be strongly Si-triggering because there used to be a carousel like that in a park near my grandparents' house when I was a kid and I'd get to ride when I visited them every summer. I never liked the feeling once I was on but I liked the idea of being on so I'd keep doing it. Anyway, that's the picture I like best because I can read some sort of personal meaning into it.
 

EJCC

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This thread is too abstract for me. :/ And imo all the pics in the OP (except the last two) look like Se; People immersing themselves in a thrilling moment.

I'd say this is a more straightforward and easy to understand picture of Si:
FilingTaxes-main_Full.jpg


Also, this:
j0385344-214x300.jpg
 

Thalassa

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I'll explain my pics of Si...JTG actually photoshopped that pic like a year ago or something, I saw the original and the "messed with" version, and to me it seems like a perfect depiction of Si...because while Se sees "what is there" Si sees "what is there" through a particular, subjective perceptual lens of one's own. There is an overlay of altered perception of the woman, there's more to it than just a sharp photograph of a woman. I think of the colored lines over her being all of the connected, linear impressions associated with the woman, rather than objectively a picture of a woman herself.

The second picture is a train on a track, because Si tends to be linear and "on a track" of interconnected thoughts, linking one piece of information to the next.

The third photograph is touching on what senza_tema mentions, making one association to another. That photograph is simply a new, personal representation relating back to something very familiar to the past. And this would have personal, subjective...even emotional...meaning for the person recreating this sensory association.
 

Mal12345

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Can we get more pics of Si in here? Se is fairly clear to me. I think mal is correct when he says that Si is concerned with the focused intensity of a sensory experience and Se has to do with variety of sensory experiences. This is what I read about it as well. Si does not only have to do with order and detail, but it can easily entail that. Se does not only have to do with pushing the limits, but it can easily entail that. Given that, some of mal's Si pics are accurate. I think Se or Si both can be explored alone or with others which makes it hard to identify which is being used.

It sounds like you have the right idea, therefore more pics won't be necessary. :)
 
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011235813

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I'm still unconvinced by your pictures and your explanations, mal12345.

SI DOMS, TO THE BATMOBILE! SHOW US WHAT YOUR MIND LOOKS LIKE!!!
 

EJCC

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Sorry I missed all the previous discussion of Se in the OP... :doh: The one time I don't read the entire thread before I post...

Now that I've read it: It's interesting that everyone's definitions of Si on this thread have related to expanding, while my internal definition relates to narrowing down. Not that I don't relate; of course I understand what it's like to look at something and have all these free associations happen as a result (although I feel like a lot of that is Ne and not Si). But how I think of Si relates to the experience of looking at a room full of things and immediately zeroing in on something as being somehow "different". And it'll even take me a while to realize what's different about it, but the instinct to see it as "different" is there before any of the details are.

Also, I really relate a lot to this, from Personality Nation. The sandwich metaphor SO TOTALLY resonates. It also perfectly describes how I somehow can always find my way back somewhere, as long as I've been there once.
I'm still unconvinced by your pictures and your explanations, mal12345.

SI DOMS, TO THE BATMOBILE! SHOW US WHAT YOUR MIND LOOKS LIKE!!!
I'm Si second and showed mine! :)
 
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011235813

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I'm Si second and showed mine! :)

And I appreciate it! You showed me something I didn't even pause to consider but which makes a lot of sense now that I think about it. Baby tert-Si is now chewing on its new pacifier. :alttongue:

Now that I've read it: It's interesting that everyone's definitions of Si on this thread have related to expanding, while my internal definition relates to narrowing down. Not that I don't relate; of course I understand what it's like to look at something and have all these free associations happen as a result (although I feel like a lot of that is Ne and not Si).

Huh. You may be right. I wonder if it's bossy Ne taking over? Because I'm finding it quite difficult to remember a time when Si-preference hasn't been accompanied by this.
 
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