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  1. #81
    Senior Member NegativeZero's Avatar
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    I call complete and total bullshit. I don't even need to reference function theory, typology, etc. My girlfriend is an ISFJ. She loves roller coasters.

    Pictorial guide debunked (sort of). A more helpful visual guide to Si/Se differences would be a venn diagram showing mostly Se activities/behaviors, crossover activities, and then mostly Si activities/behaviors.
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  2. #82
    Away with the fairies Southern Kross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    This actually reminds me also of the conversation I had with the ISTJ about Si vs. Se sports:

    Si - golf, tennis, ballet

    Se - Xtreme sports, skate boarding, football

    Si sports require exquisite precision and patience was the rationale.
    I think Se-dom sports would certainly be like that but what about the auxiliaries? I know many ISXPs who enjoy quiet but sensual activities (including golf and tennis ). Perhaps the important part is that it is felt with intensity not necessarily that it be intense?

    Some suggested Se examples (the last 3 are profile pics from my ISFP friend's facebook - its fascinating seeing the world through her eyes ):





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    they've gone through and through me, like wine through water, and altered the colour of my mind.

    - Emily Bronte

  3. #83
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeZero View Post
    I call complete and total bullshit. I don't even need to reference function theory, typology, etc. My girlfriend is an ISFJ. She loves roller coasters.

    Pictorial guide debunked (sort of). A more helpful visual guide to Si/Se differences would be a venn diagram showing mostly Se activities/behaviors, crossover activities, and then mostly Si activities/behaviors.
    The pictorial guide was not intended to prove anything, only to picture in an archetypal way the definitions I provided for Si and Se. Are you being serious? If so, your ability with logic is extremely questionable. And if you want to see venn diagrams, then make some venn diagrams.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  4. #84
    Senior Member NegativeZero's Avatar
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    Oh yeah? Well, I disagree with the " archetypal definitions" you provided. In fact, like I said in my previous post, I think they're bullshit. Functions have nothing to do with a person wanting to ride a roller coaster or be a race car driver.

    However, I do think you did a good job of demonstrating what each are like. Se is sort of like a roller coaster: it's fast, active, and there's always something happening. Si is sort of like driving a race car: exhilarating with pangs of consistency, e.g., same car, same track, same principal, etc. It also demands great awareness of the world around you.

    So yeah, it's possible I misunderstood it, but either way, there's no need to doubt my "logical ability" simply because I expressed disagreement.
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  5. #85
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeZero View Post
    Oh yeah? Well, I disagree with the " archetypal definitions" you provided. In fact, like I said in my previous post, I think they're bullshit. Functions have nothing to do with a person wanting to ride a roller coaster or be a race car driver.
    That's not the idea the pictures are trying to represent. The ideas the pictures represent ARE IN THE DEFINITIONS I PROVIDED VERBALLY.

    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeZero View Post
    However, I do think you did a good job of demonstrating what each are like. Se is sort of like a roller coaster: it's fast, active, and there's always something happening. Si is sort of like driving a race car: exhilarating with pangs of consistency, e.g., same car, same track, same principal, etc. It also demands great awareness of the world around you.

    So yeah, it's possible I misunderstood it, but either way, there's no need to doubt my "logical ability" simply because I expressed disagreement.
    Si requires great awareness of the world around them. But that's not the entire "picture." I would argue whether or not Se requires great awareness, or if what you're saying is that the Si requires a different kind of focus. Or if you're saying that the focus for the Si is more intense. I like logic, but I may like accuracy of speech even better.

    But as I said at the beginning, the Si seeks to intensify the relationship between the singular experience and the subject of that experience. Perhaps it is best to call it an adrenaline rush or adrenaline high. It could involve even something as down to earth as calf roping and similar rodeo competitions. Calf roping requires intense concentration and many, many repetitions of the same motions. Although in that sport, there is no life-or-death scenario, there is just the absolute of success/failure with no gray areas.



    Bull riding is even more high stakes as far as pure survival is concerned.

    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  6. #86
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    I'm pretty sure the same picture can be used to describe both, because it isn't the picture, but what the person extracts, or doesn't that tells.

    The only difference between the observer of an ISJ or an ESP is what Si finds meaningful with that picture and remembers, while Se leaving the event unaltered in all of its glory!

  7. #87
    Senior Member NegativeZero's Avatar
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    Ah, okay. As I was starting to suspect, we agree more than I think. Although I think any type could enjoy any activity, I do agree with your conflating them to Se or Si. Good job, in this case. There are many people who can't notice the distinction between the two; I'll agree that the overlap between the two can be broad, but sensors, just be grateful it's not like Ni and Ne. Those two functions are from different planets sometimes.
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  8. #88
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReflecTcelfeR View Post
    I'm pretty sure the same picture can be used to describe both, because it isn't the picture, but what the person extracts, or doesn't that tells.

    The only difference between the observer of an ISJ or an ESP is what Si finds meaningful with that picture and remembers, while Se leaving the event unaltered in all of its glory!
    Yes, left to their own devices, everybody comes up with their own idea. But I haven't simply thrown a bunch of mix-and-match pictures onto the table for everybody to sort out and make up their own minds from their own impressions. I'm saying "this picture better relates to my verbal representation of an Si than it does to my verbal representation of an Se." So you have a choice: you can either follow my train of thought, or you can get caught up in your own reflections of things. It's always up to you.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #89
    ReflecTcelfeR
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Yes, left to their own devices, everybody comes up with their own idea. But I haven't simply thrown a bunch of mix-and-match pictures onto the table for everybody to sort out and make up their own minds from their own impressions. I'm saying "this picture better relates to my verbal representation of an Si than it does to my verbal representation of an Se." So you have a choice: you can either follow my train of thought, or you can get caught up in your own reflections of things. It's always up to you.
    But wouldn't that mean that no picture you took would represent just one function? I'm saying that even if you took a picture of a frog that represents all types. Saying that Si is something is like excluding all the rest and I don't think it's that divided.

  10. #90
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NegativeZero View Post
    Ah, okay. As I was starting to suspect, we agree more than I think. Although I think any type could enjoy any activity, I do agree with your conflating them to Se or Si. Good job, in this case. There are many people who can't notice the distinction between the two; I'll agree that the overlap between the two can be broad, but sensors, just be grateful it's not like Ni and Ne. Those two functions are from different planets sometimes.
    The response I attempted to send 20 minutes ago got lost in the daily server backup. I guess that's what backups are for, to send my posts into cyberspace.

    Let's see if I can rebuild it. I said blah blah, and then I said blah blah again, and then I said I liked your idea that Ni and Ne are from different planets compared to Sensation, and even compared to each other.

    Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

    Previously I tried to represent my idea of a certain function with a video I found on youtube. I got the same response then as I'm getting now, pretty much. And I gave back the same response: the video is not literal, it is archetypal of a function.


    Here's how I picture the Fe function -

    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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