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  1. #71
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    Playing sports or being physical and having a sense of aesthetics isn't Se. Se is a functional attitude of having a deep appreciation for reality and new experiences and enjoying things that are satisfying to the senses, as well as making an immediate "impact" on others and being inclined to react to or act on the immediate environment.

    Si types can have a highly developed sense of aesthetics, and may be VERY particular about their aesthetics. I don't know if you saw my examples before I deleted it, but they can enjoy a very specific kind of sensory stimulus, and want things to look or sound or smell or taste a VERY PARTICULAR WAY. Si types are just as inclined toward sports or exercise as an Se type could be, but with the Si type there is probably going to be more of an emphasis on precision of technique.

    Se doesn't own aesthetics, and can easily be related to Si and/or Fi.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Playing sports or being physical and having a sense of aesthetics isn't Se. Se is a functional attitude of having a deep appreciation for reality and new experiences and enjoying things that are satisfying to the senses, as well as making an immediate "impact" on others and being inclined to react to or act on the immediate environment.

    Si types can have a highly developed sense of aesthetics, and may be VERY particular about their aesthetics. I don't know if you saw my examples before I deleted it, but they can enjoy a very specific kind of sensory stimulus, and want things to look or sound or smell or taste a VERY PARTICULAR WAY. Si types are just as inclined toward sports or exercise as an Se type could be, but with the Si type there is probably going to be more of an emphasis on precision of technique.

    Se doesn't own aesthetics, and can easily be related to Si and/or Fi.
    Didn't get a chance to look at your examples, unfortunately.

    Anyway, in the two cases I'm thinking of, precision and perfection don't seem to be at stake when they're playing sports or having fun with art and crafts. These are activities that, so far as I can tell, the people in question are doing just because it's their small way of letting go and living in the moment (and this is something that both of them struggle to do at most times.) Nor do these activities seem to be driven by any purpose other than to unwind, which is highly unusual as both people are very precise, organised individuals who have very good reasons for nearly everything they do, and love to plan ahead.

    On the other hand, I haven't received any startling inklings of Ni-preference from them.

  3. #73
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    Well if they're very organized and precise planners and you don't see any hints of Ni, then those may just be their releases, their hobbies they do to relax. An Si dom isn't going to be a precise control freak 24/7, it's more of an attitude of subjective meaning to sensory impressions and a preference for linear thinking.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Playing sports or being physical and having a sense of aesthetics isn't Se. Se is a functional attitude of having a deep appreciation for reality and new experiences and enjoying things that are satisfying to the senses, as well as making an immediate "impact" on others and being inclined to react to or act on the immediate environment.

    Si types can have a highly developed sense of aesthetics, and may be VERY particular about their aesthetics. I don't know if you saw my examples before I deleted it, but they can enjoy a very specific kind of sensory stimulus, and want things to look or sound or smell or taste a VERY PARTICULAR WAY. Si types are just as inclined toward sports or exercise as an Se type could be, but with the Si type there is probably going to be more of an emphasis on precision of technique.

    Se doesn't own aesthetics, and can easily be related to Si and/or Fi.
    playing sports and enjoying asthetics is Se because it comes with all those sensations precision and technique isn't really "SI" it's more Ti. When I do something physical Im always thinking about it first so I get every single angel of it perfect, that's a very Ti trait.

  5. #75
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    Aesthetics and sports are not Se. Se and Si are functional attitudes, not actions.

    That's just crazy talk.

  6. #76
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    Well, I honestly don't see either Si or Ni in them, which is primarily because I still don't understand either function very well. What I get visibly from these two is loads and loads of Te/Fi -- the other stuff is more difficult to get at and pick apart and they either get abstruse or dismissive when I try to investigate.

    Patches once talked about her approach to video games - even though it's her form of release, she still needs to go through all the levels and win all the trophies and unlock all the achievements or it's just not satisfactory for her. I don't mean to suggest that all ISTJs are exactly the same by any means, but that doesn't sound anything like what my friends do.

    I'm still pretty sure they are actually ISTJs. I JUST WANT TO PICK THEIR BRAINS APART.

  7. #77
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Playing sports or being physical and having a sense of aesthetics isn't Se. Se is a functional attitude of having a deep appreciation for reality and new experiences and enjoying things that are satisfying to the senses, as well as making an immediate "impact" on others and being inclined to react to or act on the immediate environment.

    Si types can have a highly developed sense of aesthetics, and may be VERY particular about their aesthetics. I don't know if you saw my examples before I deleted it, but they can enjoy a very specific kind of sensory stimulus, and want things to look or sound or smell or taste a VERY PARTICULAR WAY. Si types are just as inclined toward sports or exercise as an Se type could be, but with the Si type there is probably going to be more of an emphasis on precision of technique.

    Se doesn't own aesthetics, and can easily be related to Si and/or Fi.
    "Emphasis on precision of technique"? You think so? Maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong perspective... but using an example from earlier tonight... I was trying to demonstrate to an ESTJ friend of mine how to knit. When I do activities like knitting or making bracelets, etc. I focus heavily, no only on the moment and act of creating, but perfecting my technique in how I make them. I was trying to explain how to hold her hands, the needles and yarn, and how she needs to be using the three together to create a better flow. This is one of the aspects I enjoy in these hobbies. Maybe I'm utilizing Si during these hobbies? But I always thought it was Se in a focused way.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

  8. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by IndyAnnaJoan View Post
    "Emphasis on precision of technique"? You think so? Maybe I'm looking at this from the wrong perspective... but using an example from earlier tonight... I was trying to demonstrate to an ESTJ friend of mine how to knit. When I do activities like knitting or making bracelets, etc. I focus heavily, no only on the moment and act of creating, but perfecting my technique in how I make them. I was trying to explain how to hold her hands, the needles and yarn, and how she needs to be using the three together to create a better flow. This is one of the aspects I enjoy in these hobbies. Maybe I'm utilizing Si during these hobbies? But I always thought it was Se in a focused way.
    Hmm well when I am cooking I need for things to be a very particular way, part of cooking well is having patience and technique...in my mind, I don't understand how people cook badly, because to me it seems like a matter of caring and paying attention and learning certain techniques...meanwhile, some people burn boiled eggs or ramen lol. I enjoy the sensory experience of cooking, like I just enjoy it, it relaxes me, but of course doing it a certain way and employing certain techniques is imperitive to doing it well.

    Perhaps what it is in an emphasis on SYSTEMS. In my experience, Si doms want things to be A CERTAIN WAY. And precision does come along with that, there is a particular way this should be. My ISTJ will freak out if someone else washes his designer jeans, because there is a certain way to wash them to keep them looking right. He notices crumbs on the counter from across the room. He wants his pants to fit a very particular way. His taste in music is very particular, he's very picky.

    And with Si doms, because of their attachment of deep subjective meaning to sensory imput, this can make them highly honed in on the details of that which they care about. And this is why I say precision. It may not be an objective precision but it is a subjective precision.

  9. #79
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    This is kind of how I see all introverted functions to work, be it Fi, Si, Ni, Ti.



    This is how I see ESFJ's.


    Is this subjective Si?


    Si:


    Se:


    Si or Fi-dom + Se:


    Whereas Se-dom:
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
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  10. #80
    Senior Member IndyGhost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Hmm well when I am cooking I need for things to be a very particular way, part of cooking well is having patience and technique...in my mind, I don't understand how people cook badly, because to me it seems like a matter of caring and paying attention and learning certain techniques...meanwhile, some people burn boiled eggs or ramen lol. I enjoy the sensory experience of cooking, like I just enjoy it, it relaxes me, but of course doing it a certain way and employing certain techniques is imperitive to doing it well.

    Perhaps what it is in an emphasis on SYSTEMS. In my experience, Si doms want things to be A CERTAIN WAY. And precision does come along with that, there is a particular way this should be. My ISTJ will freak out if someone else washes his designer jeans, because there is a certain way to wash them to keep them looking right. He notices crumbs on the counter from across the room. He wants his pants to fit a very particular way. His taste in music is very particular, he's very picky.

    And with Si doms, because of their attachment of deep subjective meaning to sensory imput, this can make them highly honed in on the details of that which they care about. And this is why I say precision. It may not be an objective precision but it is a subjective precision.
    aaah. now i understand.
    "I don't know a perfect person.
    I only know flawed people who are still worth loving."
    -John Green

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