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Pictorial Guide to the Se/Si Distinction

NegativeZero

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I call complete and total bullshit. I don't even need to reference function theory, typology, etc. My girlfriend is an ISFJ. She loves roller coasters.

Pictorial guide debunked (sort of). A more helpful visual guide to Si/Se differences would be a venn diagram showing mostly Se activities/behaviors, crossover activities, and then mostly Si activities/behaviors.
 

Southern Kross

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This actually reminds me also of the conversation I had with the ISTJ about Si vs. Se sports:

Si - golf, tennis, ballet

Se - Xtreme sports, skate boarding, football

Si sports require exquisite precision and patience was the rationale.
I think Se-dom sports would certainly be like that but what about the auxiliaries? I know many ISXPs who enjoy quiet but sensual activities (including golf and tennis ;) ). Perhaps the important part is that it is felt with intensity not necessarily that it be intense?

Some suggested Se examples (the last 3 are profile pics from my ISFP friend's facebook - its fascinating seeing the world through her eyes :D):

hawaii_kauai_na_pali_coast_couple_kayaking_along_10001-90128-17.jpg

beauty-flower-girl-nature-sun-photography-beautiful.jpg

264406_10150302375278627_640608626_9180688_4730325_n.jpg

222083_10150242753408627_640608626_8674839_1941766_n.jpg

181530_10150152398078627_640608626_8063917_1703181_n.jpg
 

Mal12345

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I call complete and total bullshit. I don't even need to reference function theory, typology, etc. My girlfriend is an ISFJ. She loves roller coasters.

Pictorial guide debunked (sort of). A more helpful visual guide to Si/Se differences would be a venn diagram showing mostly Se activities/behaviors, crossover activities, and then mostly Si activities/behaviors.

The pictorial guide was not intended to prove anything, only to picture in an archetypal way the definitions I provided for Si and Se. Are you being serious? If so, your ability with logic is extremely questionable. And if you want to see venn diagrams, then make some venn diagrams.
 

NegativeZero

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Oh yeah? Well, I disagree with the " archetypal definitions" you provided. In fact, like I said in my previous post, I think they're bullshit. Functions have nothing to do with a person wanting to ride a roller coaster or be a race car driver.

However, I do think you did a good job of demonstrating what each are like. Se is sort of like a roller coaster: it's fast, active, and there's always something happening. Si is sort of like driving a race car: exhilarating with pangs of consistency, e.g., same car, same track, same principal, etc. It also demands great awareness of the world around you.

So yeah, it's possible I misunderstood it, but either way, there's no need to doubt my "logical ability" simply because I expressed disagreement.
 

Mal12345

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Oh yeah? Well, I disagree with the " archetypal definitions" you provided. In fact, like I said in my previous post, I think they're bullshit. Functions have nothing to do with a person wanting to ride a roller coaster or be a race car driver.

That's not the idea the pictures are trying to represent. The ideas the pictures represent ARE IN THE DEFINITIONS I PROVIDED VERBALLY.

However, I do think you did a good job of demonstrating what each are like. Se is sort of like a roller coaster: it's fast, active, and there's always something happening. Si is sort of like driving a race car: exhilarating with pangs of consistency, e.g., same car, same track, same principal, etc. It also demands great awareness of the world around you.

So yeah, it's possible I misunderstood it, but either way, there's no need to doubt my "logical ability" simply because I expressed disagreement.

Si requires great awareness of the world around them. But that's not the entire "picture." I would argue whether or not Se requires great awareness, or if what you're saying is that the Si requires a different kind of focus. Or if you're saying that the focus for the Si is more intense. I like logic, but I may like accuracy of speech even better. :)

But as I said at the beginning, the Si seeks to intensify the relationship between the singular experience and the subject of that experience. Perhaps it is best to call it an adrenaline rush or adrenaline high. It could involve even something as down to earth as calf roping and similar rodeo competitions. Calf roping requires intense concentration and many, many repetitions of the same motions. Although in that sport, there is no life-or-death scenario, there is just the absolute of success/failure with no gray areas.

calf-roping-snowmass-dusk.jpg


Bull riding is even more high stakes as far as pure survival is concerned.

2A58C27F-18F9-727B-54BF-B62014DB3074.jpg
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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I'm pretty sure the same picture can be used to describe both, because it isn't the picture, but what the person extracts, or doesn't that tells.

The only difference between the observer of an ISJ or an ESP is what Si finds meaningful with that picture and remembers, while Se leaving the event unaltered in all of its glory!
 

NegativeZero

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Ah, okay. As I was starting to suspect, we agree more than I think. Although I think any type could enjoy any activity, I do agree with your conflating them to Se or Si. Good job, in this case. There are many people who can't notice the distinction between the two; I'll agree that the overlap between the two can be broad, but sensors, just be grateful it's not like Ni and Ne. Those two functions are from different planets sometimes.
 

Mal12345

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I'm pretty sure the same picture can be used to describe both, because it isn't the picture, but what the person extracts, or doesn't that tells.

The only difference between the observer of an ISJ or an ESP is what Si finds meaningful with that picture and remembers, while Se leaving the event unaltered in all of its glory!

Yes, left to their own devices, everybody comes up with their own idea. But I haven't simply thrown a bunch of mix-and-match pictures onto the table for everybody to sort out and make up their own minds from their own impressions. I'm saying "this picture better relates to my verbal representation of an Si than it does to my verbal representation of an Se." So you have a choice: you can either follow my train of thought, or you can get caught up in your own reflections of things. It's always up to you.
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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Yes, left to their own devices, everybody comes up with their own idea. But I haven't simply thrown a bunch of mix-and-match pictures onto the table for everybody to sort out and make up their own minds from their own impressions. I'm saying "this picture better relates to my verbal representation of an Si than it does to my verbal representation of an Se." So you have a choice: you can either follow my train of thought, or you can get caught up in your own reflections of things. It's always up to you.

But wouldn't that mean that no picture you took would represent just one function? I'm saying that even if you took a picture of a frog that represents all types. Saying that Si is something is like excluding all the rest and I don't think it's that divided.
 

Mal12345

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Ah, okay. As I was starting to suspect, we agree more than I think. Although I think any type could enjoy any activity, I do agree with your conflating them to Se or Si. Good job, in this case. There are many people who can't notice the distinction between the two; I'll agree that the overlap between the two can be broad, but sensors, just be grateful it's not like Ni and Ne. Those two functions are from different planets sometimes.

The response I attempted to send 20 minutes ago got lost in the daily server backup. I guess that's what backups are for, to send my posts into cyberspace.

Let's see if I can rebuild it. I said blah blah, and then I said blah blah again, and then I said I liked your idea that Ni and Ne are from different planets compared to Sensation, and even compared to each other.

Men are from Mars, Women are from Venus.

Previously I tried to represent my idea of a certain function with a video I found on youtube. I got the same response then as I'm getting now, pretty much. And I gave back the same response: the video is not literal, it is archetypal of a function.

Here's how I picture the Fe function -
keep-food-warm-transporting-800x800.jpg

SuperStock_1672R-35273.jpg
 

Mal12345

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But wouldn't that mean that no picture you took would represent just one function? I'm saying that even if you took a picture of a frog that represents all types. Saying that Si is something is like excluding all the rest and I don't think it's that divided.

Defining a term partially involves an attempt to exclude. I don't want the Si to look like the Se, either verbally or pictorially. Blurring distinctions serves no purpose. My method is such that the pictures are to be sufficiently differentiated, just as their respective verbal definitions are. They (Se/Si) do appear rather similar in some respects, but this cannot be helped, after all, they are both S types. However, I guarantee that my pictorial notions of Se and Ni do not even appear remotely similar.
 

BlueGray

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The INFP has the Si function as tertiary. If your Ne is weak, then the Si will take over as auxiliary.

It doesn't take the auxiliary being weak to have a strong tertiary. I use Si heavily but I still use my Ne and Ti more.
 

Mal12345

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It doesn't take the auxiliary being weak to have a strong tertiary. I use Si heavily but I still use my Ne and Ti more.

I don't believe that a functions test even determines anything about auxiliaries and tertiaries. I would have to see the questions, but the auxiliary Si is different from the dominant Si. See my post above about the ESTJ/ESFJ question. Their Si's don't influence those types to engage with the physical world. Si helps them in their black-and-white rule and law-and-order orientation. Tradition and authority. But there is also the aspect of "something bad will happen if you don't follow the rules." A single pebble rolling down a hill builds into a landslide.
 

uncommonentity

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I understood the original post and meaning behind the pictures just fine so thanks. I'll be avoiding those with Se up until the point I want some sensory funzors. *Sarcastically waves a pair of pom poms*
 

Mal12345

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Se (costume party)

cat.jpg
 

Oaky

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I'm afraid the Si pictures in the OP are not good indicators of the function at all. Si falls to traditional means in which you know something from experience and therefore you are likely to deal with situations in the way you know by experience.

The first two pictures of Si in the OP are actually more inclined towards Se. Se is an experiencing function in which Se users like to get a kick out of physically feeling the rush of the world. If we wish to speculate more those two first Si pictures tend towards Introverted Se users, ISPs.
 

EJCC

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Se:



Si:

[IMG][/QUOTE]
YES. :yes: Finally, some easy-to-understand photos on this thread! I "get" these, and I totally agree with them. :)
 

Thalassa

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I'm afraid the Si pictures in the OP are not good indicators of the function at all. Si falls to traditional means in which you know something from experience and therefore you are likely to deal with situations in the way you know by experience.

The first two pictures of Si in the OP are actually more inclined towards Se. Se is an experiencing function in which Se users like to get a kick out of physically feeling the rush of the world. If we wish to speculate more those two first Si pictures tend towards Introverted Se users, ISPs.

I get why the second picture is Si, actually. It may be a physical 'rush' or experience if you're inside the car, but frankly being a Nascar fan seems MUCH more Si to me because you have to deeply delve into particular drivers, and pay close attention to the race which seems extraordinarily repetitive and streamlined to me. Being a Nascar fan seems much more depth over breadth to me and even the symbol of the "track" seems more like Si to me.

I like onemoretime's pics, those do make a lot of sense.
 

Oaky

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I get why the second picture is Si, actually. It may be a physical 'rush' or experience if you're inside the car, but frankly being a Nascar fan seems MUCH more Si to me because you have to deeply delve into particular drivers, and pay close attention to the race which seems extraordinarily repetitive and streamlined to me. Being a Nascar fan seems much more depth over breadth to me and even the symbol of the "track" seems more like Si to me.

I like onemoretime's pics, those do make a lot of sense.
Most who would view the image would automatically assume it meant sitting in the car racing rather than remembering names and viewing the race itself. It is well known race car drivers initially enter the field because of the rush and feel of such which identifies far more as Se. Si users will tend not take risks within areas of possible ambiguity.

And oh yes, onemoretime's pictures are quite good. Far better indicators.
 
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