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Thread: Fi and Ti

  1. #31
    Senior Member TenebrousReflection's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by five View Post
    Interesting.

    I wouldn't bother trying to matchup Fi vs Ti.

    Rather just go Fi vs Fe route. Even though the INTP is "T" they have a torrid of feelings (at least when I observe them, often they are not aware of these feelings). Fe is clearly visible in INTP's and basically absent in Fi users.

    However Fi vs Fe is something that is easier detected in reality vs online forums.
    In the case of comparing INFP and INTP, it makes sense to compare Fi and Ti, because they represent our primary function, and for those of us that are indecicive about our type, seeing the difference is helpful.

    The lack of Fe in INFPs is a valid point, but even in INTPs that should have it, as you point out, how well developed it is depends on age and life circumstances, but an INFP raised in an environment that was full of Fe would probably also develop that skill even though it is a shadow trait for them - the difference is the INFP would probably view it as a nescessary evil, where I think the INTP would view it as a tool (every job benefits from the right tool - even if its not a job you enjoy, its still good to have the best tool for it and know how to use it).
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  2. #32
    resonance entropie's Avatar
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    I think the op's an intresting topic, I am afraid I am as hesistant on a factual definition like you are in the op.

    Its definitly not only the difference between passion and logic or between a focus on humans or on machines... when it comes to me I'd say the one comes from the head and thinks boolean, while the other comes from the heart and thinks human. Thats the farthest step I'd dare out of the house.

    But I do see the similarity, I had equal problems about recognizing whether I am enfp or entp.
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  3. #33
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    Just going to throw in my two cents, here.

    The difference between Ti and Fi, even though they may come to the same result, is the process behind it, as everyone here knows. This is what I've found it would look like:

    Ti: This system doesn't make sense; here is a much more sound, practical one.
    Fi: This system is wrong; here is a much kinder/ more humanistic one.

    A Ti user still has an emotional reaction to a system, but this is more dependent on whether or not it is logically sound than it is on some humanistic or moral principle. In other words, a Ti user might have a bad feeling about a principle or rule, but their feelings will be influenced far more by whether or not it works or is practical, than by a moral principle. Even if what they don't like about it is how it makes them feel, their intention will be to make it practical and leaving them with a good feeling. The practicality would come first, in this case; they would not easily sacrifice practicality to morality. The human element would be great to please, however, the point of the reform would be to increase the efficiency of the system.

    An Fi user, on the other hand would have thoughts on the matter, but their thoughts are influenced by their emotions and moral principles, not the other way around. An Fi user might look at a rule/principle and say, "this is wrong, it shouldn't be like this". They may then have logical reasons as to why they believe that it is wrong, but the logic here is used to serve their moral principles, unlike a Ti user, who will modify their morality to fit into a logical model. The morality of it would come first; the logic and practicality behind it would always take a backseat to that. If an Fi user were to advocate logic over emotional harmony, it would be because the logic, in that case, would be more fitting to their principles than the harmonious option.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Here's an interesting perspective I found on another thread by simulatedworld:

    The difference is that Fi/Te people have preconceived notions of ethics ("natural ethics" which stay static regardless of context), but believe that logic just depends on the current situation. Nothing is logical until an external context has been defined.

    Ti/Fe people have preconceived notions of logic ("natural logic" which stays static regardless of context) but believe that ethics depend on the current situation. Nothing is ethical until an external context has been defined.
    In other words, an INFP might say that violence is always bad, but sometimes it's logical and necessary, whereas an INTP might say violence can be logical, but it's not always ethical/acceptable.

  5. #35

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    Quote Originally Posted by RevlisZero View Post
    In other words, an INFP might say that violence is always bad, but sometimes it's logical and necessary, whereas an INTP might say violence can be logical, but it's not always ethical/acceptable.
    It doesn't make much sense to me though, both those things vary depending on context. Plus, I'd say I see ethics as in more of a flux than logic. In your example I would usually think... it will work to impose my will on others but is it the right choice ethically.

  6. #36
    Senior Member Silveresque's Avatar
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    Maybe it's more like this: Do you feel what's right/wrong or what you personally desire, and then decide whether or not it's logical, or do you know what's logical and then have to decide whether or not it's ethical?

  7. #37
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Here's some more ways of expressing these finctional distinctions I've just thought of.

    ego's Ti self-evaluation: Am I living up to my own sense of technical worth? Am I producing an environment of internally standardized efficiency? (convenience; everything makes sense, not controlled by anything that doesn't make sense).

    Hence, a pragmatic (NT[P] or S[T]P) approach to decision making

    The sense of humane worth is generally ceded to the outside environment. The goal is to be logically efficient to one's self, and accepted by others. Often these conflict, causing much stress as the immature functional need goes unmet.

    Shadow degradation:

    Ti-Fi When things don't make sense, ego is offended. If others do not acknowledge or accept position, then a strong internal sense of humane worthlessness develops. Merging with the object from a humane perspective normally protects you from this internal sense, but if the object is too much against the ego, then you are exposed to these feelings you try to keep out of consciousness.

    This would be balanced by ceding some of the technical judgment to others, and keeping some of the humane judgment to one's self, but these are normally rejected perspectives. Then, you could both deal with things not always making sense, and not depend on others' acceptance when at odds.

    ego's Fi self-evaluation: Am I living up to my own sense of humane worth? Am I reflecting to others the values I believe are universal?

    Hence, a responsive (F+P informative;motive focused) approach.

    Technical evaluations are ceded to the external environment. The goal is to be ethically congruent to one's own self, and logically efficient to others. The person then works to serve others in some way. (Thus, the typical Supine--IxFP and Sanguine--ExFP behaviors, which might sound Fe-ish, but are really a combination of Fi and Te. Here, INTP/Naama, is where what you've been saying about function-attitude 'simulation' is true).
    This can conflict, if the internal sense of personal need is not what the group wants. Thus, even though the person's ethical standard is internal, he will still often be very sensitive and easily hurt by others' disapproval. (The tertiary or inferior Fi of TJ's, is where it more likely puts on a tough stubborn exterior that often resists others in favor of one's own values).

    Shadow degradation (FP's can state whether they can testify to this):

    Fi-Ti When life isn't congruent with values, ego is offended. If others do not acknowledge or work towards making necessary changes, then a strong internal sense of depersonalization occurs.
    Merging with the object from a technical perspective normally protects you from this internal sense, but if the object is too much against the ego, then you are exposed to these feelings you try to keep out of consciousness.

    This would be balanced by ceding some of the humane evaluation to the group, and then internalizing some of the technical standards so that you both understand the logic of why people want what they do, and do not overextend yourself too much.
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