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The Worst You = The Real You?

mrcockburn

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Do you agree with this? That your very worst side, the behaviors that you usually keep under control (your id in Freudian speak?) are the real you.

I'd say yes because it's our natural instincts that we only learn to overcome. For example, if someone deep down, during their absolute worst stress and loss of control, acts like an unhealthy ESFP, they're really ESFP.

In other words, your "stress type" is your true type - even if you hate being that way under enormous stress and would never do so under normal circumstances.

Personally speaking, it's why I type myself as an ESFP - 99% of the time, I act more ESTP/ENTJ. But once in a blue blue moon, I become temporarily emo for no reason. I assume that's my intrinsic desire, even though I can't stand being that way. Usually I don't have much emo to suppress, so it's disturbing when it crops up out of nowhere. But I assume that must be the "real" unearthed me.

Your thoughts on this?
 

Thalassa

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That's what Professor Yukawa told me. I'm like "here are my issues. Here's what the therapist told me I am." And he's basically like, excellent you're definitely ESFP, not ENFP like I previously considered for you.

Your stress type is your inferior function, which would be Ni if you're ESFP.
 

mrcockburn

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My argument is that stress type is your dominant function - your uncensored id that never sees the light of day , that you never even knew you had until it erupted out of nowhere.

So, I'm ISFP.
 

Thalassa

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My argument is that stress type is your dominant function - your uncensored id that never sees the light of day , that you never even knew you had until it erupted out of nowhere.

So, I'm ISFP.

Nooooo.

I'd say you were ExTJ if your Fi never sees the light of day.

If I value realism and new experiences and the simple aesthetic pleasures of life above all else, but when I'm batshit crazy I start thinking people are talking about me behind my back, misinterpret their motives, and become extremely anxious and possibly act out, or even become violent, I'm probably an ESFP.

If you're normally exceedingly rational and detached but act like an emo FREAK every once and a while, and can't control it, almost like a child, you're probably ExTJ.
 

Rail Tracer

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It was what I was getting at in my thread a while back, but I worded it incorrectly.

But instead, what I thought was that some people could actually be acting like their stressed type... and that their real type was being muffled because it wasn't working.

It is like a kid wanting to go out and play, but doesn't want to go out to play because mommy said not to. So the kid learns to muffle his desires and not go.
 

Thalassa

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Extraverted Sensing - ES(T) and ES(F)

paranoid, superstitious, anxious, fearful of the unknown, fear of the occult, overly adverse to religion, jealousy, delusional, suspicious of ill-intentions, violent, aggressive, detachment from reality

Extreme Neurosis:
Schizotypal Personality Disorder
Anxiety Disorder


Introverted Feeling - IF(N) and IF(S)

critical of the world, critical of everyone, constantly blames others, constantly views everyone as evil, fakes evidence, prone to making up problems where none exists, overly obsessed with seeking faults and errors (especially in authority figures), prone to excessively twisting people's positive words into negative ones

Extreme Neurosis:
Borderline Personality Disorder



Extraverted Thinking - ET(S) and ET(N)

violent, sociopathic, aggressive, dishonest, excessive jealousy, vengeful, vindictive, overly prideful, lacks sense of guilt, lacks sense of empathy, lacks sense of principles, constantly blames others, the ends justifies the means, no sense of right and wrong (logically or ethically)

Extreme Neurosis:
Dissocial Personality Disorder
Narcissistic Personality Disorder

The above would compare ESxPs to IxFPs and ExTJs
 

Rail Tracer

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My argument is that stress type is your dominant function - your uncensored id that never sees the light of day , that you never even knew you had until it erupted out of nowhere.

So, I'm ISFP.

I was thinking along the lines that if you thought that the ESFP you is the real you, the other you (how you have been acting to get through things) could of been INTJ.
 

Thalassa

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I was thinking along the lines that if you thought that the ESFP you is the real you, the other you (how you have been acting to get through things) could of been INTJ.

Or an INFJ.

Mhhmm. Guess what I thought my original type was?
 

mrcockburn

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I was thinking along the lines that if you thought that the ESFP you is the real you, the other you (how you have been acting to get through things) could of been INTJ.

I definitely don't act like an INTJ. Not even remotely. My normal, healthy, happy self is more ESTP.
 

Thalassa

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I definitely don't act like an INTJ. Not even remotely. My normal, healthy, happy self is more ESTP.

Your happiest, healthiest self is your type. It's the most comfortable place for you. Hence preferences.

Your "crazy" or your "wish I was" or "gotta be" is the inferior.
 

CrystalViolet

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Just out of curiosity, Marm, what are ENF's stress responses? I can look them up, but some thing about your wording....I'm actually wondering if I'm more extroverted than I thought.
 

mrcockburn

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Your happiest, healthiest self is your type. It's the most comfortable place for you. Hence preferences.

Your "crazy" or your "wish I was" or "gotta be" is the inferior.

My crazy type = ISFP
Wish I was type = ENFJ
Gotta be type = ESFJ (because I'm a chick, people expect me to Fe/Si all over the place. I try to, but I suck tragically at both functions.)

Okay, it's obviously time for me to be booked into the happy house. Where's Winona Ryder...
 

Thalassa

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I don't know if this helps but when I was about 17 I thought INTJs (or the INTJ archetype) were the most magnificent creatures on earth, like they were the most controlled, rational, brilliant beings...who never lost control, never acted uncouth, but had intellect and insight.

It was only in getting to know them, personally, that I realized how damaged they can be, and how human they all are.

And how much I value my emotional sensitivity, my open extroverted perception, and my attachment to the physical world.

Neurosis can make you hate WHAT YOU ARE and make you want to be THE INFERIOR. Or...conversely, instead of conscious admiration, it can just make you subconsciously act out the issues of that inferior function. Or both.
 

mrcockburn

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I don't know if this helps but when I was about 17 I thought INTJs (or the INTJ archetype) were the most magnificent creatures on earth, like they were the most controlled, rational, brilliant beings...who never lost control, never acted uncouth, but had intellect and insight.

It was only in getting to know them, personally, that I realized how damaged they can be, and how human they all are.

And how much I value my emotional sensitivity, my open extroverted perception, and my attachment to the physical world.

Neurosis can make you hate WHAT YOU ARE and make you want to be THE INFERIOR. Or...conversely, instead of conscious admiration, it can just make you subconsciously act out the issues of that inferior function. Or both.

Wanting the best of the inferior, and acting like the worst of the inferior. This does make sense. It's almost like trying to fulfill the positive stereotype of the inferior, but you can only take on the negative traits, because it's always easier to behave negatively than it is to behave positively.

And what I just said made no sense. I must be inferior Ti. :ninja:
 

mrcockburn

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Marm, you thought you were INFJ? Where's the Fe?? :D You read to me as Fi all the way!
 

Thalassa

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Just out of curiosity, Marm, what are ENF's stress responses? I can look them up, but some thing about your wording....I'm actually wondering if I'm more extroverted than I thought.

Well ENFP is the same as ENTP: EN...and ENFJ is the same as ESFJ...EF...(Ne dom and Fe dom, respectively)

Extraverted Feeling - EF(S) and EF(N)

Self-critical, self-blaming, pessimistic, overly susceptible to feeling guilty or remorse, constantly takes blames for others, judgemental to oneself and others, derogatory attitude, negativistic

Extreme Neurosis:
Depressive Personality Disorder
Histrionic Personality Disorder

Extraverted Intuition - EN(T) and EN(F)

addictions, impulsive, hypochondriacal, anxiety, addicted to drinking/sex/drugs/cigarettes/and other forms of bodily-induced sensations, dissociated from inner thoughts and feelings, workaholic, overly obsessed with a single object or idea

Extreme Neurosis:
Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder
Anxiety Disorder
 

Thalassa

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Marm, you thought you were INFJ? Where's the Fe?? :D You read to me as Fi all the way!

Exactly. I quickly figured out that Fi and Te were my judging functions.

But I believe I had some sort of Ni fixation.
 

OrangeAppled

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I also think the stressed version of the person is not the true self (or in this case, preferred form of cognition), but the inferior function which opposes the true self. This is often why the person is stressed; they are trying to harmonize two forms of thinking opposed to each other because a situation seems to call for the one they do not prefer.

So, I don't agree with the OP. I don't believe the worst self is the true self, only one part of the whole self. I think the true self is not so one-dimensional, not static, and not necessarily "bad". I tend to think the true self is the theoretical "self-actualized" version. In enneagram, your type is how you cope in a sense, the emotional motivation you use to deal with life. The more you let this cover your true self, the more you disintegrate. Integration is when you take on a motivation that balances your main one, which allows the true self to emerge, since the main motivation no longer has a stranglehold. Something like that anyway :D
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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Hm... I wish I was more like my ISTJ brother... He's amazing.
 
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