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  1. #41
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You said ISTJ and ISFP share Se. That must have been a mistake on your part, then. Because I know why an ISTJ can look like an ISFP...Si/Fi loop with very high Fi, and looking less INFP even though they have Ne instead of Se, simply through the fact they're Si dom...which is what I already said many posts back.

    Jung was an ISTP and based his theories on actual observations of patients. He at least began with reality.
    Maybe the entire thing I wrote is mistaken, but I see some level of agreement at the start of this thread. The agreement doesn't relate to THEORY per se, but only to some people's actual experiences with the types. And I am partially working from experience to extrapolate the rest of the type tertiaries. That assumes (yes, I assume things too) the possibility of creating one theory to describe all types. But I don't mistake my own assumptions as factual.

    I argued against the absurd idea that Jung was on ISTP back on PersN. I don't base my INTJ call on Jung's self-description as being a factually oriented person. If he really was fact-oriented, then *he should have produced the facts*. But all he produced was theory.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #42
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    <snop>
    ESFJ in a test does not mean your function order is a model in the locker.
    It only means you stand closest to the ESFJ, of the types.
    You could have made great friends out of Ouspensky and Gurdjieff. I think the former was a 5 and the latter an 8.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Maybe the entire thing I wrote is mistaken, but I see some level of agreement at the start of this thread. The agreement doesn't relate to THEORY per se, but only to some people's actual experiences with the types. And I am partially working from experience to extrapolate the rest of the type tertiaries. That assumes (yes, I assume things too) the possibility of creating one theory to describe all types. But I don't mistake my own assumptions as factual.

    I argued against the absurd idea that Jung was on ISTP back on PersN. I don't base my INTJ call on Jung's self-description as being factually oriented. If he really was fact-oriented, then *he should have produced the facts*. But all he produced was theory.
    Jung described himself as a scientist who had thinking and sensing upper most in his consciousness. I'm pretty certain he understood his own theory.

    The Ni you're seeing is ISTP tert Ni.

    What you described sounds like Keirsey bias. Keirsey almost got it, but not quite. Too broadly generalized. Starts as a stepping stone, but too much Ne generalization bogged down in meaningless Si details. Keirsey is INTP.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Jung described himself as a scientist who had thinking and sensing upper most in his consciousness. I'm pretty certain he understood his own theory.

    The Ni you're seeing is ISTP tert Ni.

    What you described sounds like Keirsey bias. Keirsey almost got it, but not quite. Too broadly generalized. Starts as a stepping stone, but too much Ne generalization bogged down in meaningless Si details. Keirsey is INTP.
    I see all that as PersN bias.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I see all that as PersN bias.
    That's funny since I was here first and read Jung and Keirsey apart from these websites.

    My theory about Keirsey is my own. I'm not a fan, and I've read Please Understand Me II. He generalizes people in such a way that is too generalized on one hand, and too specific in another. All SJs are not white Protestant middle class 60 year olds from Nebraska. Keirsey offends me with his over simplification, it's Kindergarten personality theory. Not real school.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    That's funny since I was here first and read Jung and Keirsey apart from these websites.

    My theory about Keirsey is my own. I'm not a fan, and I've read Please Understand Me II. He generalizes people in such a way that is too generalized on one hand, and too specific in another. All SJs are not white Protestant middle class 60 year olds from Nebraska. Keirsey offends me with his over simplification, it's Kindergarten personality theory. Not real school.
    Being offended by such a stupid theory offends me.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Being offended by such a stupid theory offends me.
    Your assertions about SJ relgiousity and prudishness and INTJ IQ vs. ISTP IQ are as dumb as Keirsey, so I can't imagine why.

  8. #48
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Your assertions about SJ relgiousity and prudishness and INTJ IQ vs. ISTP IQ are as dumb as Keirsey, so I can't imagine why.
    You're acting religious over some silly theories. I'm interested in the science of theories, and science often involves statistics. Any such statements I have made were based on empirically-based statistics. As a kind of religious person, you are equating science with absolutes. Your interpretation of everything I write is invalid, and is based on projecting your religious attitude in between the lines. I have also noticed in the past you ignored my observations regarding logic. That, too, is a religious attitude. Your hyper-religious, pseudo-scientific PersN stubbornness is the reason I have you on my PLONK list.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    You're acting religious over some silly theories. I'm interested in the science of theories, and science often involves statistics. Any such statements I have made were based on empirically-based statistics.
    UGH. Such as? It's funny, you know, because while Si likes routine and order, I know two SJs who are staunch atheists, one since childhood who could never be convinced that such a thing was remotely probable.

    As a kind of religious person, you are equating science with absolutes.
    ORLY? AM I? That's funny because I'm not the one who says all SFJs are prudes, all SJs are religious and INTJs are more intelligent than ISTPs, because babies with low IQs cry more. You say some really fucked up crazy shit, bro, stuff that just makes you sound like an over-generalizing, socially retarded fool. Not saying that you are, but you sound like it.

    Your interpretation of everything I write is invalid, and is based on projecting your religious attitude in between the lines. I have also noticed in the past you ignored my observations regarding logic. That, too, is a religious attitude. Your hyper-religious, pseudo-scientific PersN stubbornness is the reason I have you on my PLONK list.
    PersN? WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Dude, you're nuts. You're just...nuts.

  10. #50
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    UGH. Such as? It's funny, you know, because while Si likes routine and order, I know two SJs who are staunch atheists, one since childhood who could never be convinced that such a thing was remotely probable.



    ORLY? AM I? That's funny because I'm not the one who says all SFJs are prudes, all SJs are religious and INTJs are more intelligent than ISTPs, because babies with low IQs cry more. You say some really fucked up crazy shit, bro, stuff that just makes you sound like an over-generalizing, socially retarded fool. Not saying that you are, but you sound like it.



    PersN? WHAT? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? Dude, you're nuts. You're just...nuts.
    That is the stupidest thing I have read all day.

    No, all week.

    No, all YEAR.

    Now go cry about it to your HACKER friends back at PersN. Maybe your HACKER friends back at PersN would like to take another crack at HACKING my accounts the way they did last time. What a wonderful forum your PersN is. Of course it's wonderful, it's run by a bunch of HACKERS.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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