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  1. #31
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Dear god, what is wrong with you? I can understand you want to start a new theory...but if you claim you're using MBTI...there's not Dom/Tert in MBTI, because MBTI does not implement Jungian function theory. So to call it that is false.

    Secondly, there is no theory where Te is ENTPs tertiary function or Se is ISTJs tertiary, not even in Socionics, SO WHERE ARE YOU GETTING THIS?

    Is your theory that letters themselves change? If so, why? And you can't explain by using functions since you're not using functions in any way resembling actual information based in reality and accepted theories.

    Either you're using MBTI OR you're doing something based in function theory, and if you're doing function theory, you're doing it wrong.

    You're an INTP. I'm sure you're perfectly capable of Googling Lenore Thomson Tertiary Temptation and Dominant/Tertiary loops. Her theories are all at http://greenlightwiki.com
    That's the best you can do? Insult my hat, and then insult my INTP type? Why not toss this at me too?
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Lenore+Thomson+...ry+Temptation+

    What I don't understand is why you keep pulling the punches you learned from your Genius typology buddies at PersN.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    That's the best you can do? Insult my hat, and then insult my INTP type? Why not toss this at me too?
    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Lenore+Thomson+...ry+Temptation+

    What I don't understand is why you keep pulling the punches you learned from your Genius typology buddies at PersN.
    I didn't insult you for being an INTP, and I think it's hilarious to call you Mr. Tin Foil Hat since that's your avatar and you represent it well. Why does that bother you so much? Hmmm?

    You still haven't given any relevant information for why your theory is valid at all. You don't explain yourself at all, and I've pointed out the technical, factual flaws in it. So I'm waiting.

    I see you CAN GOOGLE. Good job. I just wanted to see if you could do it yourself. I mean, I figured you already knew and were just playing dumb, since you were using the words Dom/Tert theory in the first place.

  3. #33
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    mal12345

    Mendel is plain math. Generation is dichotomy. It can be used in genetics, he did.
    Dichotomy is about laws.
    A nine-set of MBTI dichotomy is about nine-set laws. Not exactly those of Mendel.
    There is a correlation, though. Dichotomy is basically one principle.


    S is not N.
    It is the complementary party of N.
    N and S stand on one continuum. The more there is N, the less there is S. Vice versa.
    If you are INTP, you can say you are Ti Ne. Or then you are not INTP.
    S does not precede N if you are an N.
    You cannot be Ti Si. You could be Ti Se- then you would be ISTP.

    We look at the couplets in number, and then we see how it goes.

    A nine set. Therefore eight funtions.

    Couplets stand on a continuum. The law of the dichotomy.

    18
    27
    36
    45

    A continnum is composed on two ends. The ends furthest apart: 18
    The ends closest each other: 45
    Therefore 45 is the inverse party of 18

    we had

    18
    45

    It means: Ti and Fe share a continuum. It goes crosswise with two other ones: The continuum of T and F; the continuum of I and E.
    The complementary party of Ti is Fe. The parties complement one another on a continuum. They do not leave the continuum:

    If your first function is Ti, your 8th function is Fe.

    We invert: the vertical takes the place of the horizontal. We have

    14
    85

    14.
    If you first function is Ti, your fourth function is Te.

    85.
    If your eighth function is Fe, your fifth function is Fi.

    Now we have left the dichotomy of perception

    27
    36

    23
    76




    23

    If your second function is Ne, your tertiary is Ni.

    27

    If your second function is Ne, your seventh function is Si

    76

    If your seventh function is Si, your sixth function is Se.

    INTP

    1. Ti Ne - INTP (surprise?)
    2. Ni Te - INTJ
    3. Fi Se - ISFP
    4. Si Fe - ISFJ

    NT is the complementary party of SF

    ESFJ is the complementary party of INTP

    turnaround

    function order of ESFJ:

    Fe Si Se Fi Te Ni Ne Ti

    An absolute function order is a model in the locker.
    ESFJ in a test does not mean your function order is a model in the locker.
    It only means you stand closest to the ESFJ, of the types.

  4. #34
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I didn't insult you for being an INTP, and I think it's hilarious to call you Mr. Tin Foil Hat since that's your avatar and you represent it well. Why does that bother you so much? Hmmm?

    You still haven't given any relevant information for why your theory is valid at all. You don't explain yourself at all, and I've pointed out the technical, factual flaws in it. So I'm waiting.

    I see you CAN GOOGLE. Good job. I just wanted to see if you could do it yourself. I mean, I figured you already knew and were just playing dumb, since you were using the words Dom/Tert theory in the first place.
    Those are NOT factual flaws. There are no facts of the matter involved whatsoever. They are only "facts" to you because you have strong opinions on this subject.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Those are NOT factual flaws. There are no facts of the matter involved whatsoever. They are only "facts" to you because you have strong opinions on this subject.
    Yes they are facts of Jungian theory and of the established theories, including Socionics.

    What is your logic in saying Se would be a tert function of ISTJ or that Te would be a tert function of ENTP?

    You're not explaining yourself. It's like you just want me to buy your theory without you tracing it back to any thing grounded in Jung.

    If you can explain your theory, I might see your idea...but until you do, this just looks like nonsense to me. It's based in nothing.

    Can you give concrete examples of why you think this? Can you explain what causes you to believe that ISTJ would be Si-Te-Se and ENTP would be Ne-Ti-Te? WHAT? WHY? What is the logic in that? Is there even a pattern to that?

  6. #36
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    mal12345

    Mendel is plain math. Generation is dichotomy. It can be used in genetics, he did.
    Dichotomy is about laws.
    A nine-set of MBTI dichotomy is about nine-set laws. Not exactly those of Mendel.
    There is a correlation, though. Dichotomy is basically one principle.


    S is not N.
    It is the complementary party of N.
    N and S stand on one continuum. The more there is N, the less there is S. Vice versa.
    Before I read the rest of this, I just want to point out one issue here, which you would say is a merely rhetorical point. But it isn't.

    You say that S is not N, and that S and N stand on one continuum, like a straight, continuous line.

    Let's create an analogy for this. The boiling point of water is not the freezing point of water. Yet they stand on one continuum, that is, the temperature of water. They don't stand at opposite sides of this continuum in reality, but let's just say that they do for arguments sake.

    But granted that they do stand on opposite ends of the continuum, like north and south poles, you're not really describing this in terms analogous to temperatures. Lukewarm water is formed by mixing equal amounts of hot and cold, but when mixed together, it is neither one. The molecular activity slows down or speeds up to attain a point of equilibrium. In your scheme, however, N and S are not lost in any kind of blending. They remain distinct elements of personality. And that's how the idea of this as a continuum gets lost on me.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  7. #37
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yes they are facts of Jungian theory and of the established theories, including Socionics.

    What is your logic in saying Se would be a tert function of ISTJ or that Te would be a tert function of ENTP?

    You're not explaining yourself. It's like you just want me to buy your theory without you tracing it back to any thing grounded in Jung.

    If you can explain your theory, I might see your idea...but until you do, this just looks like nonsense to me. It's based in nothing.

    Can you give concrete examples of why you think this? Can you explain what causes you to believe that ISTJ would be Si-Te-Se and ENTP would be Ne-Ti-Te? WHAT? WHY? What is the logic in that? Is there even a pattern to that?
    Of course I revealed the logic of the pattern in the OP. But the same criticism can be leveled at ALL your theories. They are only held to be factual because a lot of people happen to believe them. Now tell me when a pure theory becomes fact, and that will be the point at which people believed Copernican cosmology to be factual.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Of course I revealed the logic of the pattern in the OP. But the same criticism can be leveled at ALL your theories. They are only held to be factual because a lot of people happen to believe them. Now tell me when a pure theory becomes fact, and that will be the point at which people believed Copernican cosmology to be factual.
    Well your logic is very flimsy. It's not explained in depth. Jung studied people FOR YEARS and gave HUGE AMOUNTS OF INFORMATION FOR HIS REASONING.

    There is no logic to saying the ISTJs tertiary is Se. Why would that make sense?

    Just explain to me why, or your whole theory is just B.S.

    Have you spent months or years of your life observing so many ISTJs that you firmly believe they have BOTH Si and Se?

  9. #39
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well your logic is very flimsy. It's not explained in depth. Jung studied people FOR YEARS and gave HUGE AMOUNTS OF INFORMATION FOR HIS REASONING.

    There is no logic to saying the ISTJs tertiary is Se. Why would that make sense?

    Just explain to me why, or your whole theory is just B.S.

    Have you spent months or years of your life observing so many ISTJs that you firmly believe they have BOTH Si and Se?
    Jung gave utterly no reason to believe in the veracity of his judgment. His entire theory rests on zero facts. Someone might just as well describe in great detail the UFO and the aliens they saw in their back yard last night. But the description corresponds to nothing in reality.

    Jung's theory thus rests on the coherence of his account. The correspondence to reality (his patients) has to be taken on faith, as with the UFO story. But even the coherence of his theory is lacking when he asserts that cognitive styles lead to a certain type of personality. He offers utterly no proof whatsoever, so it stands as a huge assumption on Jung's part.

    Furthermore, I did not say that the ISTJ's tertiary is Se, it is ISFP. But if you think my POSSIBLE theory is flawed on the basis of that, then I can always modify my POSSIBLE theory. That's why I put the word POSSIBLE in the title.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Jung gave utterly no reason to believe in the veracity of his judgment. His entire theory rests on zero facts. Someone might just as well describe in great detail the UFO and the aliens they saw in their back yard last night. But the description corresponds to nothing in reality.

    Jung's theory thus rests on the coherence of his account. The correspondence to reality (his patients) has to be taken on faith, as with the UFO story. But even the coherence of his theory is lacking when he asserts that cognitive styles lead to a certain type of personality. He offers utterly no proof whatsoever, so it stands as a huge assumption on Jung's part.

    Furthermore, I did not say that the ISTJ's tertiary is Se, it is ISFP. But if you think my POSSIBLE theory is flawed on the basis of that, then I can always modify my POSSIBLE theory. That's why I put the word POSSIBLE in the title.
    You said ISTJ and ISFP share Se. That must have been a mistake on your part, then. Because I know why an ISTJ can look like an ISFP...Si/Fi loop with very high Fi, and looking less INFP even though they have Ne instead of Se, simply through the fact they're Si dom...which is what I already said many posts back.

    Jung was an ISTP and based his theories on actual observations of patients. He at least began with reality.

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