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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Wait. Wouldn't ENTP be Ne-Ti-Fe while ENFJ would be Fe-Ni-Se?

    So should #3 be the Tertiary of the second is the opposite of the Primary of the first?

    Cuz in the case of ENTP-ENFJ, #3 as described isn't true.

    I haven't checked the others, though.
    You are correct. In Thomson's theory of Dom-Tert loops the loop of the ENTP is more similar to that of the ESFJ, and the loop of the ESTP to the ENFJ.

    But Mal is taking into consideration that an Ne dom (such as ENTP) would still look a little more like an ENFJ if they were using a ton of Fe and skipping their Ti.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You are correct. In Thomson's theory of Dom-Tert loops the loop of the ENTP is more similar to that of the ESFJ, and the loop of the ESTP to the ENFJ.

    But Mal is taking into consideration that an Ne dom (such as ENTP) would still look a little more like an ENFJ if they were using a ton of Fe and skipping their Ti.
    I can attest for that statement. Just as evidence to the point.

  3. #13
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You are correct. In Thomson's theory of Dom-Tert loops the loop of the ENTP is more similar to that of the ESFJ, and the loop of the ESTP to the ENFJ.

    But Mal is taking into consideration that an Ne dom (such as ENTP) would still look a little more like an ENFJ if they were using a ton of Fe and skipping their Ti.
    With ENTP & ENFJ, the dom-tert is Ne-Fe & Fe-Se, so they only share Ne. Does the auxiliary Ni in the ENFJ somehow make up the difference?

    Strange that I've had so much trouble with a few ESFJs in the workplace considering we share Ne-Fe as reverse dom-tert functions.

    I do have a few best friends who are ENFJs, though. I don't get it.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    With ENTP & ENFJ, the dom-tert is Ne-Fe & Fe-Se, so they only share Ne. Does the auxiliary Ni in the ENFJ somehow make up the difference?

    Strange that I've had so much trouble with a few ESFJs in the workplace considering we share Ne-Fe as reverse dom-tert functions.

    I do have a few best friends who are ENFJs, though. I don't get it.
    There is a theory that Ns get along better with other Ns, or that Se and Si dom/aux complement one another and that Ne and Ni dom/aux complement one another. Other people will tell you that it's those people with similar functions that make us happy.

    In my opinion, the judging functions are THE MOST IMPORTANT. Te/Ti and Fe/Fi. I think those honestly cause the hugest clashes with people, or people who are honest-to-god opposites, like an ENFJ and an ISTJ...no functions in common, oh no not one.

    Compatibility tends to be a more individual thing, too ya know. Some of that comes from non-MBTI related things like common interests, belief systems, and just what you as a person feel comfortable being around, possibly due to parental influence, childhood, or culture, et al.

    ENTP and ENFJ share judging functions, Fe and Ti, which is what is supposed to be the real magic I suppose.

    I try to apply personality theory to compatibility as lightly as possible, and focus more on individual strengths, weaknesses, and development, though it would be a lie for me to say that I don't see trends...particularly with judging function compatibility (Ti and Fe vs. Fi and Te) but other people might disagree.

  5. #15
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    There is a theory that Ns get along better with other Ns, or that Se and Si dom/aux complement one another and that Ne and Ni dom/aux complement one another. Other people will tell you that it's those people with similar functions that make us happy.
    That's true. I never thought it was strange until I thought of it from the perspective of sharing reversed dom-tert functions.

    In my opinion, the judging functions are THE MOST IMPORTANT. Te/Ti and Fe/Fi. I think those honestly cause the hugest clashes with people, or people who are honest-to-god opposites, like an ENFJ and an ISTJ...no functions in common, oh no not one.
    That makes sense. It seems especially true of the extroverted judging functions. Perceiving functions seem to live and let live, but judging functions are literally the ones that make judgements, and when those functions are extroverted, it seems like there is more potential for clashes.


    Compatibility tends to be a more individual thing, too ya know. Some of that comes from non-MBTI related things like common interests, belief systems, and just what you as a person feel comfortable being around, possibly due to parental influence, childhood, or culture, et al.

    ENTP and ENFJ share judging functions, Fe and Ti, which is what is supposed to be the real magic I suppose.
    Hm, that makes sense.


    I try to apply personality theory to compatibility as lightly as possible, and focus more on individual strengths, weaknesses, and development, though it would be a lie for me to say that I don't see trends...particularly with judging function compatibility (Ti and Fe vs. Fi and Te) but other people might disagree.
    I agree, there is much more to personality than MBTI type. But the fact that a lot of people can look back on their lives, prior to any MBTI knowledge, and find a pattern in their past friends' and boyfriends'/girlfriends' MBTI types, indicates that MBTI type does have a large influence on natural compatibility. Not that I've done a scientific study to prove this or anything, though.

  6. #16
    Senior Member wildcat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    I'll start with my own type, and derive the pattern from there:

    Dominant - Tertiary
    INTP - ISTJ
    INFP - ISFJ
    INTJ - INFP
    INFJ - INTP
    ISTP - INTJ
    ISFP - INFJ
    ISTJ - ISFP
    ISFJ - ISTP

    ENTP - ENFJ
    ENFP - ENTJ
    ENTJ - ESTP
    ENFJ - ESFP
    ESTP - ESFJ
    ESFP - ESTJ
    ESTJ - ENTP
    ESFJ - ENFP

    When deriving the tertiary MBTI from a dominant -

    1. the attitude (I/E) remains the same, but is reinforced by the tertiary (tertiary users will probably score as high as 100% on the I/E scales).

    2. The Dominant letter remains the same (the T in Ti, the S in Si).

    3. The Auxiliary letter changes to its opposite (S to N, T to F).

    4. And J/P changes to its own opposite.
    Study Mendel.

  7. #17
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wildcat View Post
    Study Mendel.
    Genetics?
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  8. #18
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    I'd like to see the rationale behind this chart.

  9. #19
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    With ENTP & ENFJ, the dom-tert is Ne-Fe & Fe-Se, so they only share Ne. Does the auxiliary Ni in the ENFJ somehow make up the difference?

    Strange that I've had so much trouble with a few ESFJs in the workplace considering we share Ne-Fe as reverse dom-tert functions.

    I do have a few best friends who are ENFJs, though. I don't get it.
    ENTP/ENFJ
    ENFJ/ESFP

    Please feel free to add to or even negate any of the following according to your own experiences.

    For the ENTP, abstraction, which usually rules, moves to the background when the tertiary doppelganger takes charge and the ENTP personality becomes unbalanced. The problem involves the ENTP's social relationships, which can become endangered due to eccentric behavior. Fe, in this case, may try to come to the rescue, but will only make social matters worse. I would surmise that, when this happens, the ENFJ tertiary will call forth social values to eradicate the 'enemy,' spurning and casting out all those who have offended the ENTP. The ENTP will project the ENTP's faults onto the objects. It's never the subject's fault, but always the object, in this case, others in society, or so the rationalization goes. But it is the ENTP who is his own worst enemy.

    The ENFJ personality develops a histrionic aspect when the ESFP doppelganger comes forward to ham-handedly solve problems caused by personal neglect in the intuitive realm, especially that involving social harmony. The problem is not that ESFP tertiary is undeveloped, it may be very well developed, it simply lacks experience in the social realm and therefore falls back on an instinct for social manipulation. An ESFP may often score as an ennea-type 2 along with the ENFJ. The presence of the tertiary explains why such very different personalities score as the same ennea-type.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #20
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    There is a theory that Ns get along better with other Ns, or that Se and Si dom/aux complement one another and that Ne and Ni dom/aux complement one another. Other people will tell you that it's those people with similar functions that make us happy.

    In my opinion, the judging functions are THE MOST IMPORTANT. Te/Ti and Fe/Fi. I think those honestly cause the hugest clashes with people, or people who are honest-to-god opposites, like an ENFJ and an ISTJ...no functions in common, oh no not one.
    Not unless you count their tertiary MBTI types. That is, if you want to. They do share Se in common, but only if you count the ISTJ's auxiliary Se in the tertiary. And then they would have to be unbalanced personalities relying on tertiaries to take up the slack.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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