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Male versus Female Expression of Type...

Chiharu

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What, if any, differences do you note?




*Prompted by my realization that of the the videos I watch and discussions I read, I relate more to males of my typology (mbti+ enneagram+ (sometimes) tritype) than I do to females. Showed the vids/posts to my friends, and they concur. Note, I'm not a tomboy, nor particularly masculine over feminine.*
 

Coriolis

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In my admittedly non-expert estimation, type differences far outweigh gender differences. Moreover, much of what is often described as male-female differences/disconnects/conflicts are really type based, usually T/F. Since more women are F and more men T, this fuels the stereotypes. The fact that people like you often report being more comfortable with those of opposite gender but similar type supports the distinction. The big wildcard, or perhaps forcing function, here is cultural norms, especially in cultures where males and females do not interact much. It just takes longer to work through the extra barriers to see the similarities.
 

Totenkindly

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Pretty ambitious thread... and it would have to take culture locations into account since gender expectations can different from culture to culture.
 

rav3n

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This just begs for me to use the term "species"!! Males and females of each species vibe differently. Don't ask me how because I'm too lazy to break down all the types and their differences.

E - To blanket generalise, males of any type are more self-centric and aggressive. This appears to be an issue of socialisation.
 

Jaguar

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Age has far more of an overriding influence than the gender/ type issue. An obnoxious kid is an obnoxious kid, regardless of gender/ type. ENFP, INFP, ENTJ, INTJ, INTP, it doesn't matter.
 

Coriolis

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E - To blanket generalise, males of any type are more self-centric and aggressive. This appears to be an issue of socialisation.
Is it all a result of socialization, or is there some physiological component as well, related to hormone levels, etc.?
 

rav3n

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Is it all a result of socialization, or is there some physiological component as well, related to hormone levels, etc.?
I'm hesitant to incorporate hormone level differences since they're still researching the link between testosterone and aggression. Correlation or causation.

But this article is interesting since it discusses a study that attempts to find correlation between lower empathy levels and higher testosterone levels:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110209105556.htm

Mind reading is one aspect of empathy, a skill that shows significant sex differences in favour of females. They tested 16 young women from the general population, since women on average have lower levels of testosterone than men. The decision to test just females was to maximize the possibility of seeing a reduction in their levels of empathy.

The researchers not only found that administration of testosterone leads to a significant reduction in mind reading, but that this effect is powerfully predicted by the 2D:4D digit ratio, a marker of prenatal testosterone. Those people with the most masculinized 2D:4D ratios showed the most pronounced reduction in the ability to mind read.

Jack van Honk said: "We are excited by this finding because it suggests testosterone levels prenatally prime later testosterone effects on the mind."
 

Chiharu

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In what way are you more like the males of your personality type than females?

It's rather difficult to explain, but I'll try... when I read the writings or watch videos of female ENFPs, I note qualities that make them ENFp, notice similar qualities in myself... in short, I recognize that we're the same type. But with most male ENFPs, I notice similar... not exactly habits or mannerisms, something else... that's what i don't know how to describe... and their strange experiences/anecdotes with Ne or type in general correspond with my own, where the female's experience/anecdotes only theoretically make sense. And it's not just me that thinks so... my friends and family concur. Male video: "He acts like you!" Female video: "Are you sure you're the same type?" "YEs, we have XYZ similarities." "If you say so..."

My pet theory is/was that most female ENFPs connect more with Ne-Fi, where most males connect with Ne-Te and keep their Fi more private/internal, as I prefer to do. But I really don't have any support for that, can't think of a good argument, and didn't post it because I expected it to be flamed.

Anyway, i don't think there's an explanation for my experience that won't be met with "Yeah, RIGHT..." but that got me thinking about male/female expression of type, and wondered if anyone else noticed differences.
 

Chiharu

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Age has far more of an overriding influence than the gender/ type issue. An obnoxious kid is an obnoxious kid, regardless of gender/ type. ENFP, INFP, ENTJ, INTJ, INTP, it doesn't matter.

I think you may be right here, but what if you negate age as a factor? Say all your subject are 18-25, or 25-35, or 35-50, etc.? What's left?

I'm not trivializing your comment, you definitely have a point. I relate more to my age mates of any type/gender than someone much older or younger of the same type/gender.
 

onemoretime

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This is a difficult question to consider, since type has only so much to do with the persona we present to the outside world.
 

Chiharu

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Pretty ambitious thread... and it would have to take culture locations into account since gender expectations can different from culture to culture.

True. I didn't even think about that But that would be too important to negate as a factor wouldn't it... I wonder what conclusions we could come up with that factor negated/included. Interesting.
 

Chiharu

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This is a difficult question to consider, since type has only so much to do with the persona we present to the outside world.

True. I'm not looking for a perfect answer though... just hoping people will post their own observations and pet theories, and maybe at the end of this thread a pattern will emerge...
 

Thalassa

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I'm hesitant to incorporate hormone level differences since they're still researching the link between testosterone and aggression. Correlation or causation.

But this article is interesting since it discusses a study that attempts to find correlation between lower empathy levels and higher testosterone levels:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/02/110209105556.htm

That's very interesting, but not surprising.

I would say, generally, that ExFP males might be more frequently confused with ExTP, while ENFP females and ESFP females might seem to have more similar traits or ENFP females might be more likely to be confused with INFP.

Also, I would say that IxFJ males might act a little more IxTJ-ish due to socialization, and Fe standards of normative behavior for men, and I think this would be even stronger in ISFJ than INFJ.

Hmmm...I've also noticed ENTx females sometimes showing more "softness" than their ENTx male counterparts.

This is probably partly due to hormones, but also due to socialization and in some cases more than others like with IxFJ males.

Just my perception. I'm just throwing this out there.
 

mrcockburn

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P-doms, I suspect, could simply go into a loop to fulfill their gender roles. Like what some guy said about ENFPs - the girls might use Ne-Fi, the guys might reach OVER the Fi and use Ne-Te.

J-doms might have to make a more concerted effort if their type clashes with their expected gender role. Because not only is the "non gender role conforming) their essence, reaching the "socially proper" alternative is 1 function more of a reach than it is for the P-dom.

And since I thought P and J functions went hand in hand, that seems impossible. An ISTP, for instance, would have to step out front nude into Se and THEN reach for the Fe. A shift.

Idk...are aux-inferior loops possible??
 
R

ReflecTcelfeR

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This all depends if you think the functions are themselves masculine or feminine. If you believe that Fe is feminine and Te is masculine and Se is masculine and Ni is feminine, then an ENFJ male in a society where Te is the norm will have to cope within the realm of his thought and we say that Se and Ti are masculine, if he wishes to conform, those functions will be his way of coping with the world... Which in theory will cause him to look like an ESTP (A more masculine type). That's the contortion of being accepted. But I'd say if both genders can occupy both thought processes even if it's an anomaly then expression of type between genders is only directed by society and the functions themselves are not different within either gender.
 

Eric B

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It seems the gender issue is connected with T/F, and not S/N so much.

Either can gender can be either T or F. But because females are naturally designed to be the mothers, carrying and nurturing the young child, their natural focus has shifted more to the " humane" or"personal" side of life. (Including being more in touch with the emotions). Since males then were the breadwinners, and the strong protectors, they became more focused on the " technical" or "impersonal". The traditional roles of society formed around this, with the typical model of a woman being said to be SFJ or SFP, and the typical model of a man being STJ or at least STP.(Notice how both are S). Even though modern society has been changing the roles and integrating both genders to the same sorts of careers and family tasks, the associations have stuck.
This can cause type confusion for female T's, and both type and "masculinity" problems for male F's. I have noticed particularly that female ITJ's (especially ISTJ's) and ETP's, who both have tertiary Feeling, will look a lot like Feelers. Male EFP's and I imagine, IFJ's (particularly INFJ) will have tertiary Thinking, and are said to look a lot like Thinkers.
 

tinker683

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That's very interesting, but not surprising.

I would say, generally, that ExFP males might be more frequently confused with ExTP, while ENFP females and ESFP females might seem to have more similar traits or ENFP females might be more likely to be confused with INFP.

Also, I would say that IxFJ males might act a little more IxTJ-ish due to socialization, and Fe standards of normative behavior for men, and I think this would be even stronger in ISFJ than INFJ.

Hmmm...I've also noticed ENTx females sometimes showing more "softness" than their ENTx male counterparts.

This is probably partly due to hormones, but also due to socialization and in some cases more than others like with IxFJ males.

Just my perception. I'm just throwing this out there.

My thoughts exactly, particularly the bolded :yes:

I've noticed that while ISFJ females and I seem to have some things in common...in others we are very different. It's interesting to me
 

Totenkindly

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My thoughts exactly, particularly the bolded :yes:
I've noticed that while ISFJ females and I seem to have some things in common...in others we are very different. It's interesting to me

Yeah, it took me longer to read ISFJ guys. You look different than the ISFJ women I've known, although once I got past the veneer, I could see you all operating under similar values.
 

Totenkindly

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My thoughts exactly, particularly the bolded :yes:
I've noticed that while ISFJ females and I seem to have some things in common...in others we are very different. It's interesting to me

Yeah, it took me longer to read ISFJ guys. You look different than the ISFJ women I've known, although once I got past the veneer, I could see you all operating under similar values.
 
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