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  1. #31
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    He is actually EXTRAORDINARILY NURTURING for a man, and in very practical ways, like doing laundry, cleaning the house, reminding me to drink water, arranging the bedroom curtains so that I could sleep better, endlessly calling me and his mother cutesy nicknames, openly crying, being extremely affectionate...and enforcing his mother's morality. I saw this more and more as I got to know him, and he would enforce the strangest things, like how his name came first on the Christmas presents because "he's a man," how he carried my groceries and walked on the sidewalk side because "he's a man, and should protect" me, and enforcing sexual fidelity upon threat of death. He's also very orderly, organized in an external way, and sooooo good at charming people, and knowing exactly how he should act in certain social situations, despite how he is fer realz.
    Interesting... My ESFJ dad also does the underlined, though he differs quite a lot from your description. He has that "Let me help you... PLEASE" thing going on, and frequently says things like "I love you, son, did you know that?". He's practical in a more "patriarchal" sense, reminding me of my responsibilities and offering money even when I don't ask. He's not exactly "traditional", and comes off as ESFP-ish at times due to his larger-than-life presence and energetic - jittery, even - disposition.

    On the flipside, he can be kind of like the stereotypical Jewish mother - "I do everything for you, how dare you find me a wee bit overbearing!". I've nicknamed him "Papa Bear".

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Interesting... My ESFJ dad also does the underlined, though he differs quite a lot from your description. He has that "Let me help you... PLEASE" thing going on, and frequently says things like "I love you, son, did you know that?". He's practical in a more "patriarchal" sense, reminding me of my responsibilities and offering money even when I don't ask. He's not exactly "traditional", and comes off as ESFP-ish at times due to his larger-than-life presence and energetic - jittery, even - disposition.

    On the flipside, he can be kind of like the stereotypical Jewish mother - "I do everything for you, how dare you find me a wee bit overbearing!". I've nicknamed him "Papa Bear".
    Well everyone's Fe varies slightly, everyone's Fe is not the same which is why all SFJs are not conservative Christians, but reflect the Fe of their primary social group whether it be liberal hippies or the Italian Mafia...but yes I can see what you're saying about your ESFJ dad...he's probably a little healthier than my ex, too. You also have to remember that I met my ex when he was in his mid-twenties and your dad is also middle-aged, at least, which would make him seem more patriarchal...also, since he's your dad...and my ESFJ ex was my boyfriend...but he had many "husband like" characteristics, the sort of things one thinks of when thinking of a traditional husband. Also, he has that presence your dad has I've bolded, he loves dogs, and children like him.

  3. #33
    Member amazingdatagirl's Avatar
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    I've been thinking about this issue regarding ISTJ females with high tertiary Fi. Si-Te is undoubtedly the preferred functional pair but softened by strongly idealistic introverted feeling. One of the women is my mother-in-law - I have known her for nearly 40 years.

    Her husband is ESFJ. He was angry counter-phobic guy when he was younger. A near death experience in his mid 40's seemed to unlock his heroic Fe. The guy wants to help everyone. I love him dearly even if he is a nuisance at times. He personifies the tension that male Fe-doms feel in traditional culture.

  4. #34
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    I know an ISTJ male who has been in an Si-Fi loop who has VERY HIGH tert Fi...his Te is obvious though if you get to know him, and his morality and expression of feeling is not Fe. He's using his Te more and more now. A person who is depressed or whatever can get stuck in loops which make their aux function seem almost non-existent. It also produces extreme introversion, I think.

  5. #35
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Well everyone's Fe varies slightly, everyone's Fe is not the same which is why all SFJs are not conservative Christians, but reflect the Fe of their primary social group whether it be liberal hippies or the Italian Mafia...but yes I can see what you're saying about your ESFJ dad...he's probably a little healthier than my ex, too. You also have to remember that I met my ex when he was in his mid-twenties and your dad is also middle-aged, at least, which would make him seem more patriarchal...also, since he's your dad...and my ESFJ ex was my boyfriend...but he had many "husband like" characteristics, the sort of things one thinks of when thinking of a traditional husband. Also, he has that presence your dad has I've bolded, he loves dogs, and children like him.
    I see what you're saying... Though I'd say his dom Fe manifests itself less in loyalty to a particular group/belief - soccer teams notwithstanding - and more in a rather... overt manifestation of caretaking.

    He's also... less than mature in some aspects. You know the guy who thinks like "How dare those people ruin my holiday by driving in the road! It's like it's public or something!". He also has some, well, awkward moments in less familiar social settings, sometimes acting a little too "chummy" for the occasion. All in all, though, he's a pretty cool guy.

    (...I'm derailing the thread, ain't I? )

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    Interesting... My ESFJ dad also does the underlined, though he differs quite a lot from your description. He has that "Let me help you... PLEASE" thing going on, and frequently says things like "I love you, son, did you know that?". He's practical in a more "patriarchal" sense, reminding me of my responsibilities and offering money even when I don't ask. He's not exactly "traditional", and comes off as ESFP-ish at times due to his larger-than-life presence and energetic - jittery, even - disposition.

    On the flipside, he can be kind of like the stereotypical Jewish mother - "I do everything for you, how dare you find me a wee bit overbearing!". I've nicknamed him "Papa Bear".
    hoorah for ESFJ fathers.

    I can totally relate to your post.

    Me: Can I please have some frozen chicken nuggets?
    Him: You can have anything you want, baby. How many bags? One? Two? Ten?
    Me: uhhhh... one. thanks.

  7. #37
    Member amazingdatagirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    A person who is depressed or whatever can get stuck in loops which make their aux function seem almost non-existent. It also produces extreme introversion, I think.
    My father-in-law was hell to live with when he was younger - even his wife's perfectly regimented Si-Te wasn't enough to quell his temper tantrums. She was almost mute when I first got to know her.

    Interesting to see the balance of power shift in that relationship.

  8. #38
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Seeee....Tinker seems very ISFJ to me. I've dated a couple of ISFJ guys.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    This is also how I can tell the difference between an ISFJ male and an ISTJ who is being emo because he's depressed.
    Oh? Do feel free to elaborate, I'm genuinely curious, seeing as I seem to sometimes score ISTJ

    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    He does now. He's one of the first ISFJ men I've talked to. (I did realize later that one of my uncles is ISFJ + a guy I used to work with, but otherwise I had no idea. Whereas I know a ton of ISFJ women.)
    Who, me or your ex? I'm assuming your ex

    Quote Originally Posted by EJCC View Post
    I agree. In part because he reminds me of male INFJs that I'm close with. Same with Viridian (who I still think is ISFJ).
    I've sometimes wondered if I am intact an INFJ. I don't think so, I'm too much into the "here and now" and really abstract stuff tends to either bore me or irritate me. Still, I've never met a confirmed INFJ male so I have no basis of comparison.

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    He is actually EXTRAORDINARILY NURTURING for a man, and in very practical ways, like doing laundry, cleaning the house, reminding me to drink water, arranging the bedroom curtains so that I could sleep better, endlessly calling me and his mother cutesy nicknames, openly crying, being extremely affectionate...and enforcing his mother's morality. I saw this more and more as I got to know him, and he would enforce the strangest things, like how his name came first on the Christmas presents because "he's a man," how he carried my groceries and walked on the sidewalk side because "he's a man, and should protect" me, and enforcing sexual fidelity upon threat of death. He's also very orderly, organized in an external way, and sooooo good at charming people, and knowing exactly how he should act in certain social situations, despite how he is fer realz.

    ...wow. Some of the stuff your ex did I can understand but other things he did seem very strange to me. It's interesting to me how circumstances and how we're raises can shape two SJs. I guess it's because I grew up with an ENFP father and a IxFJ mother so I'm not nearly so rigid as I often read about other SJs
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post


    Oh? Do feel free to elaborate, I'm genuinely curious, seeing as I seem to sometimes score ISTJ
    Hmm you may score ISTJ because of good use of Ti, just like JTG can score ISFJ because of his high Fi...but you are definitely Fe, it appears, though I think Si/Ti could make you seem T-ish in some regards.

    You definitely seem much more like an ISFJ than ISTJ to me. I can elaborate further if you'd like.


    ...wow. Some of the stuff your ex did I can understand but other things he did seem very strange to me. It's interesting to me how circumstances and how we're raises can shape two SJs. I guess it's because I grew up with an ENFP father and a IxFJ mother so I'm not nearly so rigid as I often read about other SJs
    Everybody's Fe is different because of different ethical value systems in the environment, et al. Also my ex is an SJ raised by a very close SJ mother, too.

    My ex is also a very neurotic person, to put it mildly.

  10. #40
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Hmm you may score ISTJ because of good use of Ti, just like JTG can score ISFJ because of his high Fi...but you are definitely Fe, it appears, though I think Si/Ti could make you seem T-ish in some regards.

    You definitely seem much more like an ISFJ than ISTJ to me. I can elaborate further if you'd like.
    Certainly, if it isn't too much trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Everybody's Fe is different because of different ethical value systems in the environment, et al. Also my ex is an SJ raised by a very close SJ mother, too.

    My ex is also a very neurotic person, to put it mildly.
    Neuroticism seems to common with some (but not all) of the SJs I know, myself included. Some of our routines we have an almost OCD like quality to them.

    It just boggles me sometimes how it is that I seemed to somehow escape becoming as rigid as some other ISFJs I know, particularly the females. I just keep thinking, "What makes you so different from me? We have have similar value systems yet why is it that you and I can come to such vastly different conclusions?"

    I dunno, maybe I have a stronger Ni than I give myself credit for, or perhaps a more influential inferior-Ne?

    It's something I like to ponder on
    "The man who is swimming against the stream knows the strength of it."
    ― Woodrow Wilson

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