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  1. #11
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    This is a difficult question to consider, since type has only so much to do with the persona we present to the outside world.

  2. #12
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Pretty ambitious thread... and it would have to take culture locations into account since gender expectations can different from culture to culture.
    True. I didn't even think about that But that would be too important to negate as a factor wouldn't it... I wonder what conclusions we could come up with that factor negated/included. Interesting.
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

  3. #13
    Senior Member Chiharu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    This is a difficult question to consider, since type has only so much to do with the persona we present to the outside world.
    True. I'm not looking for a perfect answer though... just hoping people will post their own observations and pet theories, and maybe at the end of this thread a pattern will emerge...
    Be soft. Do not let the world make you hard. Do not let pain make you hate. Do not let the bitterness steal your sweetness." ― Kurt Vonnegut

    ENFP. 7w6 – 4w3 – 1w9 sx/so. Aries. Dilettante. Overly anxious optimist.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    I'm hesitant to incorporate hormone level differences since they're still researching the link between testosterone and aggression. Correlation or causation.

    But this article is interesting since it discusses a study that attempts to find correlation between lower empathy levels and higher testosterone levels:

    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0209105556.htm
    That's very interesting, but not surprising.

    I would say, generally, that ExFP males might be more frequently confused with ExTP, while ENFP females and ESFP females might seem to have more similar traits or ENFP females might be more likely to be confused with INFP.

    Also, I would say that IxFJ males might act a little more IxTJ-ish due to socialization, and Fe standards of normative behavior for men, and I think this would be even stronger in ISFJ than INFJ.

    Hmmm...I've also noticed ENTx females sometimes showing more "softness" than their ENTx male counterparts.

    This is probably partly due to hormones, but also due to socialization and in some cases more than others like with IxFJ males.

    Just my perception. I'm just throwing this out there.

  5. #15
    Aquaria mrcockburn's Avatar
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    P-doms, I suspect, could simply go into a loop to fulfill their gender roles. Like what some guy said about ENFPs - the girls might use Ne-Fi, the guys might reach OVER the Fi and use Ne-Te.

    J-doms might have to make a more concerted effort if their type clashes with their expected gender role. Because not only is the "non gender role conforming) their essence, reaching the "socially proper" alternative is 1 function more of a reach than it is for the P-dom.

    And since I thought P and J functions went hand in hand, that seems impossible. An ISTP, for instance, would have to step out front nude into Se and THEN reach for the Fe. A shift.

    Idk...are aux-inferior loops possible??
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  6. #16
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    This all depends if you think the functions are themselves masculine or feminine. If you believe that Fe is feminine and Te is masculine and Se is masculine and Ni is feminine, then an ENFJ male in a society where Te is the norm will have to cope within the realm of his thought and we say that Se and Ti are masculine, if he wishes to conform, those functions will be his way of coping with the world... Which in theory will cause him to look like an ESTP (A more masculine type). That's the contortion of being accepted. But I'd say if both genders can occupy both thought processes even if it's an anomaly then expression of type between genders is only directed by society and the functions themselves are not different within either gender.

  7. #17
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    It seems the gender issue is connected with T/F, and not S/N so much.

    Either can gender can be either T or F. But because females are naturally designed to be the mothers, carrying and nurturing the young child, their natural focus has shifted more to the " humane" or"personal" side of life. (Including being more in touch with the emotions). Since males then were the breadwinners, and the strong protectors, they became more focused on the " technical" or "impersonal". The traditional roles of society formed around this, with the typical model of a woman being said to be SFJ or SFP, and the typical model of a man being STJ or at least STP.(Notice how both are S). Even though modern society has been changing the roles and integrating both genders to the same sorts of careers and family tasks, the associations have stuck.
    This can cause type confusion for female T's, and both type and "masculinity" problems for male F's. I have noticed particularly that female ITJ's (especially ISTJ's) and ETP's, who both have tertiary Feeling, will look a lot like Feelers. Male EFP's and I imagine, IFJ's (particularly INFJ) will have tertiary Thinking, and are said to look a lot like Thinkers.
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  8. #18
    Senior Member tinker683's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    That's very interesting, but not surprising.

    I would say, generally, that ExFP males might be more frequently confused with ExTP, while ENFP females and ESFP females might seem to have more similar traits or ENFP females might be more likely to be confused with INFP.

    Also, I would say that IxFJ males might act a little more IxTJ-ish due to socialization, and Fe standards of normative behavior for men, and I think this would be even stronger in ISFJ than INFJ.

    Hmmm...I've also noticed ENTx females sometimes showing more "softness" than their ENTx male counterparts.

    This is probably partly due to hormones, but also due to socialization and in some cases more than others like with IxFJ males.

    Just my perception. I'm just throwing this out there.
    My thoughts exactly, particularly the bolded

    I've noticed that while ISFJ females and I seem to have some things in common...in others we are very different. It's interesting to me
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  9. #19
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    My thoughts exactly, particularly the bolded
    I've noticed that while ISFJ females and I seem to have some things in common...in others we are very different. It's interesting to me
    Yeah, it took me longer to read ISFJ guys. You look different than the ISFJ women I've known, although once I got past the veneer, I could see you all operating under similar values.
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  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tinker683 View Post
    My thoughts exactly, particularly the bolded
    I've noticed that while ISFJ females and I seem to have some things in common...in others we are very different. It's interesting to me
    Yeah, it took me longer to read ISFJ guys. You look different than the ISFJ women I've known, although once I got past the veneer, I could see you all operating under similar values.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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