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  1. #11
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    But why can we (or should I say, I) never really "see" it? Isn't it supposed to show up when they are extraverting?

    I can definitely see Ne or Se in ExxPs and the typical IxTPs. But with these types I only get a faint sense that it's there, lost among sky-high Ti -- it's almost like they extravert Ti, if that makes sense.
    I know what you mean, I've experienced that as well.

    I think it's mostly just a matter of degree, within the natural variability of the type range. Some IxTPs will interact within their aux as well as accept information through it -- it's a two-way pipeline. Whereas some others just take in data through it but express themselves more via their primary, so the aux is kind of "transparent" within the process.

    I guess my question here is, when you mention extraverting, are you talking about IRL face to face, or do you mean extraverting via writing? (I think it's much easier for IxTPs to express Ti in writing.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  2. #12
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    @Nomenclature,

    with the ISTP, generally, actions speak louder than words. With the INTP, the pen is mightier than the sword.
    But what if the ISTP isn't very action-oriented? These ISTPs don't do a whole lot physically.
    ---

    Oh, and another thing I've noticed -- ISTPs tend to come to their conclusions quicker than INTPs, no? I wouldn't see they're mentally quicker or smarter in general, but I guess because of the Se they are quicker on the draw. Of course this has its downsides in that they sometimes jump to obviously false conclusions.

  3. #13
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Oh, and another thing I've noticed -- ISTPs tend to come to their conclusions quicker than INTPs, no? I wouldn't see they're mentally quicker or smarter in general, but I guess because of the Se they are quicker on the draw. Of course this has its downsides in that they sometimes jump to obviously false conclusions.
    I think their considerations are more practical and decisions more apt to be expressed concretely. INTPs tend to be happy with just thinking about something without necessarily expressing it externally.

    Also, they exclude many potential avenues of thought that look whimsical to them but that an INTP would take more seriously.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #14
    Nips away your dignity Fluffywolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Oh, and another thing I've noticed -- ISTPs tend to come to their conclusions quicker than INTPs, no? I wouldn't see they're mentally quicker or smarter in general, but I guess because of the Se they are quicker on the draw. Of course this has its downsides in that they sometimes jump to obviously false conclusions.
    Yes, INTP's like to keep their options open and won't easily subject to any conclusion unless they feel they have explored all angles.. That stems from their Ne and is not of ISTP's. An ISTP can reach a conclusion more easily.

    If A equals B minus X, B is not neccesarily greater than A. But an ISTP would reason that without any other information, there is a decent chance that this is true and it is practical to assume that it is if this allows the ISTP to continue with their reasoning.. An INTP would not want to submit to such reasoning for the off chance that it isn't so, not caring about the practicality of the situation, but more about the actual truth of the problem.
    ~Self-depricating Megalomaniacal Superwolf

  5. #15
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    when you mention extraverting, are you talking about IRL face to face, or do you mean extraverting via writing? (I think it's much easier for IxTPs to express Ti in writing.)
    Both.

    It probably comes out more in writing, but it's there in face-to-face interaction as well, e.g. when they are explaining something. They seem to use Ti to express themselves in general. It's hard to explain, but it's almost Te-like. Te in my mind is like steps on a staircase or bricks in a building -- step by step. And that's what it seems like to me.

  6. #16
    Senior Member Nomenclature's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    But what if the ISTP isn't very action-oriented? These ISTPs don't do a whole lot physically.
    I myself am really push-and-pull between doing everything and doing nothing, so maybe you're not getting the whole picture... HOWEVER, I know an ISTP who hadn't left the house in months one time, which BOGGLES my mind. In his own words, "I'll always be bored whether I'm out of the house or not."

    Habitual creature in physical comfort, not quite the same as the image of the "sensation junkie" ISTP, possibly dopamine-deficient. Again, I think descriptions make ISTP's out to be more extroverted (and by this, I mean Se-using) than they really are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    Oh, and another thing I've noticed -- ISTPs tend to come to their conclusions quicker than INTPs, no? I wouldn't see they're mentally quicker or smarter in general, but I guess because of the Se they are quicker on the draw. Of course this has its downsides in that they sometimes jump to obviously false conclusions.
    I GUESS you could say that Se mainly picks up information from the present, while Ne is omnipresent and there will always be more possibilities... some of which are rendered "why the #^$% does this matter?" to the ISTP.
    ISTP 3w2 SX/SO

  7. #17
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    Cognitively, INTPs and ISTPs are virtually identical, but I think that behaviorally, being different temperaments, that's where you'll notice the difference.

    And I don't think ISTPs have to be physical types, but they are more oriented to the present and are doers. A lot of comedians, for example, I think, are ISTPs, which means they use the same analytical skills as an INTP would, but they use those skills in a way that's more true to their temperament; making an impact in the here-and-now.

  8. #18
    Senior Member ICUP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randomnity View Post
    I honestly think it's a product of really crappy ISTP descriptions online.
    I would tend to agree. Most of them seem to place us in the "mechanic" box..... I've never been crazy-interested in mechanics, and I've never been good in athletics. I would rather be studying or playing a video game. I think the writers should rephrase those descriptions, because they left me confused at first.....
    --------------



    Never really thought I was INTP, but I did get INTJ when I first took the tests. I'm 50/50 S/N and 50/50 P/J. I actually use Te stuff often, irl, but I don't really enjoy it, so you aren't going to see me use it here often lol......

    I do identify more with INTP than I do most types, but I don't think anyone is going to mistake me for an INTP. I think in my case, I feel comfortable with INTP's because they were in a lot of my classes from 6th to 12th grade, and I suppose they might've "rubbed off" a bit..... I got used to them.

    I agree that I am action-oriented, as in, I learn through acting, not reading. I can read, but until I DO it, I'm not sure. I love tutorials, instruction guides, manuals, and references.
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  9. #19
    Revelation Lauren Ashley's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffywolf View Post
    Yes, INTP's like to keep their options open and won't easily subject to any conclusion unless they feel they have explored all angles.. That stems from their Ne and is not of ISTP's.
    I don't want to make it seem as though ISTPs don't consider all options. I think they do and they can be indecisive at first (at least that's the vibe I get -- it's not expressed openly). But they reach conclusions faster and more decisively. They do not change their opinions readily.

  10. #20
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lauren Ashley View Post
    It probably comes out more in writing, but it's there in face-to-face interaction as well, e.g. when they are explaining something. They seem to use Ti to express themselves in general. It's hard to explain, but it's almost Te-like. Te in my mind is like steps on a staircase or bricks in a building -- step by step. And that's what it seems like to me.
    I would guess it to be Ti+Se, there's a concreteness to it that you are perceiving, and a practicality.

    INTP speak is almost of "pure logic" form, of the abstracted kind. It's detached from concrete objects and expressed in more ethereal terms.

    Kind of reading a math calculation with all the numbers in place and thus anchored in reality, versus reading algebraic equations where nothing is plugged in and the terms used are just loose generalities.

    (I dunno, I'm still trying to find the right words!)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nomenclature
    HOWEVER, I know an ISTP who hadn't left the house in months one time, which BOGGLES my mind. In his own words, "I'll always be bored whether I'm out of the house or not."
    That seems rather unusual to me as well.

    I would find it easier to picture an INTP up in the ivory tower, detached from the rest of the world and abstracting everything, than an ISTP doing so. (I think I see more the push-pull that you describe elsewhere in your post.)
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

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