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JCF Isn't The Answer

Jaguar

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The reason I'm leery of simulatedworld's theories isn't necessarily that they're relative, it's that I simply disagree with a few of them in terms of how he describes the actual cognitive processing, more specifically his interpretation of Ni, Se, and especially Fi. Granted, he has come quite a ways since his days of Fi bashing.

What's more worrying are those that read and either misunderstand him because they're out of touch with his sources, or adopt it without scrutiny. We both know that he's privy of Jung and Lenore Thomson, and his views are both his greatest strengths and his greatest weakness.

I don't know what his big deal is with defining the FAs. It's old hat.
There's enough good books out there available to anyone.
If memory serves me, his fav way to describe Te was merely: "Shit."
That's not exactly someone I take seriously. Lol.

If there are people actually adopting his "profiles" without scrutiny, frankly, that tells me more about them, than Sim.
 

PeaceBaby

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You went from "I don't see it as the Answer" to "that doesn't mean the system is entirely useless." If that summed up my argument, it would be a complete non sequitur. But it's not an argument I made.

I know that what it comes down to here is that my main message is too abstract. I have found that terms such as "non sequitur" simply whoosh. In any attempt to criticize a comment's logic, the commenter simply presses the mental reset button and repeats the same argument.

I don't know why you feel attacked or something, you're not on my plonk list, or even potential plonk list.

I don't read "feel attacked" in OrangeAppled's post at all. Do you believe her comments emotionally delivered? 99% probability they weren't ...

She asked, "Who views it (JCF) as an Answer? An Answer to what?" That question was in direct response to your thread title. The capital "A" was meant to emphasize, as you did yourself, the "holy grail" aspect of finding an ultimate answer. Her response was not intended as an argument per se. They were counterpoints to the potential extrapolation, "JCF's have no value" somewhat implied in your OP.

The problem I find with your posts is that I fail to see what your question is too. You share your thoughts in a manner that seems to communicate you are searching for an answer, but what they really are are position points to forward your already formulated thoughts. A vehicle of sorts to stand on a personal soap box I guess. If it's a grand statement you are making, just say what you want. If you want to rant or debate, maybe you should say so up front too. This is not dissimilar to INFP's sharing how they feel and the Fe'ers in the crowd wondering what they are trying to leverage through this outpouring of emotion. Usually nothing, actually. That's why I think for INTP's and INFP's it's how we come to understand and refine ideas so I personally have no problem with that.

But, gah, we all wonder, Fe'ers and Te'ers alike - what is the point? What are you trying to accomplish here? It is an important question to at least consider asking oneself.

I don't share this with any malice; it would be nice to share your opinion plainly without everyone trying to figure out what you're getting at or playing at. The messenger muddies the message here. People are reading in motivations that may or may not exist, and it's the source of the ire against you.
 

wolfy

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Who views it as an "Answer"? An answer to what?
I just view it as a categorization system of thought processes based on intangible qualities percieved in people. Obviously, there is no literal "Ti" process in the brain. Obviously, there is no foolproof way of determining a person's type, including your own.

I consider it to be like categorizing other human traits. Even visible ones aren't always agreed upon. For example, there are 5 basic hair color categories: red, brown, blond & black. We all know there are more than 5 hair colors in the world. There are infinite colors. However, most of us can identify a category that fits our hair color best, and determine one for others. Having very distinct categories makes it easier to choose one, instead of being stuck between two similar categories with only small, nuanced differences. Occasionally, you will look at someone & see dark blond hair, but someone else sees light brown hair, and so now the best category for their hair color is very much a matter of individual perspective. I see personality typology in a similar vein. The best type match can be a matter of perspective, and some people don't fit as neatly into one category as others. That doesn't mean the whole system is entirely useless, it's just limited in what it can describe.

This is my take on it as well. What is the question we are discussing that JCF isn't the answer to?
 

Mal12345

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I don't read "feel attacked" in OrangeAppled's post at all. Do you believe her comments emotionally delivered? 99% probability they weren't ...

She asked, "Who views it (JCF) as an Answer? An Answer to what?" That question was in direct response to your thread title. The capital "A" was meant to emphasize, as you did yourself, the "holy grail" aspect of finding an ultimate answer. Her response was not intended as an argument per se. They were counterpoints to the potential extrapolation, "JCF's have no value" somewhat implied in your OP.

The problem I find with your posts is that I fail to see what your question is too. You share your thoughts in a manner that seems to communicate you are searching for an answer, but what they really are are position points to forward your already formulated thoughts. A vehicle of sorts to stand on a personal soap box I guess. If it's a grand statement you are making, just say what you want. If you want to rant or debate, maybe you should say so up front too. This is not dissimilar to INFP's sharing how they feel and the Fe'ers in the crowd wondering what they are trying to leverage through this outpouring of emotion. Usually nothing, actually. That's why I think for INTP's and INFP's it's how we come to understand and refine ideas so I personally have no problem with that.

But, gah, we all wonder, Fe'ers and Te'ers alike - what is the point? What are you trying to accomplish here? It is an important question to at least consider asking oneself.

I don't share this with any malice; it would be nice to share your opinion plainly without everyone trying to figure out what you're getting at or playing at. The messenger muddies the message here. People are reading in motivations that may or may not exist, and it's the source of the ire against you.

Wow, thanks for informing me about some ire against me. I have some ire too, against those who have made my plonk list.
 

Jaguar

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Wow, thanks for informing me about some ire against me. I have some ire too, against those who have made my plonk list.

You addressed none of PB's points.
Do you have anything to offer other than your plonk list?
 

PeaceBaby

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Wow, thanks for informing me about some ire against me. I have some ire too, against those who have made my plonk list.

You're welcome. I still am interested in your answer though, to - what is the question?

P.S. I had to google plonk list ... do you put the plonkers on ignore?
 

PeaceBaby

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Umm, I forgot...

Actually, I do have some questions. What would you propose to replace MBTI / JCF? Do you know of any current theory or see any system that could? Or are you working on that yourself?

I would like a reply - that is, if you haven't plonked me.

Planking I do not understand. Learned about that a few months ago. Don't see the appeal lol.
 

Mal12345

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Actually, I do have some questions. What would you propose to replace MBTI / JCF? Do you know of any current theory or see any system that could? Or are you working on that yourself?

I would like a reply - that is, if you haven't plonked me.

Planking I do not understand. Learned about that a few months ago. Don't see the appeal lol.

You should know you're plonked. However, I can still read the posts I choose to open.

As I stated above, I don't like seeing these dogmatic attitudes about typology. So it's just the dogmatism I'd like to see replaced.

I keep saying the same things over and over again, and they still don't get it.

Here, let me try this ---

Typology is not the Truth...

Typology is not the Truth...

Typology is not the Truth...

Typology is not the Truth...

Typology is not the Truth...

...
 

PeaceBaby

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You should know you're plonked. However, I can still read the posts I choose to open.

Well, that's nice. Glad you chose to answer.

The result is merely a cultish following of those who don't dare question the Master.

True; I can see that.

As I stated above, I don't like seeing these dogmatic attitudes about typology. So it's just the dogmatism I'd like to see replaced.

Sure, I can appreciate that POV. And I can imagine that, from a very Ti perspective, you sense that the "system", if you can call JCF a "system" isn't perfect. The real Truth (capital T) has yet to be revealed. MBTI isn't 100% perfect. JCF is not 100% perfect. You can't really articulate all of the "why", you just know it. And when people talk about cognitive functions like they're the "be all and end all" you just shake your head, you know there's more there, to be discovered, to be explained. And validated too, the need for empirical data here is huge. I think I get it. Is that how you feel about this? That people need to stay open-minded and be less sheep-like?

I keep saying the same things over and over again, and they still don't get it.

Here, let me try this ---

Typology is not the Truth...

But in stating this over and over, is it not the same approach as the street corner prophet, claiming the end is near? No one will pay attention to you until something is falling from the sky. What tactic might better suit your desire to communicate that message? If you only wish to say it, and don't care about trying to frame your argument appropriately, how is that helpful to you or your audience?

Even if you said, "I know there's more, I can't articulate it fully, but this comes close, and this does too, and new research blah blah blah" - that might fuel discussion and open more minds. Your approach currently has the look of being almost as dogmatic as you claim the JCF cult followers appear ...
 

Mal12345

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Sure, I can appreciate that POV. And I can imagine that, from a very Ti perspective, you sense that the "system", if you can call JCF a "system" isn't perfect. The real Truth (capital T) has yet to be revealed. MBTI isn't 100% perfect. JCF is not 100% perfect. You can't really articulate all of the "why", you just know it. And when people talk about cognitive functions like they're the "be all and end all" you just shake your head, you know there's more there, to be discovered, to be explained. And validated too, the need for empirical data here is huge. I think I get it. Is that how you feel about this?

But in stating this over and over, is it not the same approach as the street corner prophet, claiming the end is near? No one will pay attention to you until something is falling from the sky. What tactic might better suit your desire to communicate that message? If you only wish to say it, and don't care about trying to frame your argument appropriately, how is that helpful to you or your audience?

Even if you said, "I know there's more, I can't articulate it fully, but this comes close, and this does too, and new research blah blah blah" - that might fuel discussion and open more minds. Your approach currently has the appearance of being almost as dogmatic as you claim the JCF cult followers have ...

Nobody is going to pay attention anyway. I'm just giving my perspective on this which should tell you that I won't have any of this dogma. So the plan is simply to say "don't push your dogmas on me." I don't listen to religionists at my door either, why should I listen to them on forums? And then of course someone always comes along and says "I'm not like that," just like above. But I'm not addressing that person or persons with my criticisms. If you're not dogmatic then it doesn't apply to you.

I'll tell you what's interesting about typology is that it opens my mind to new concepts that are not typology related. For example, I've been pondering my boss's personality lately, and tonight it occurred to me that he feels like a failure. He is compensating for feeling like a failure, that's why he has to amass millions of dollars, buy more and more property, be the top dog in his profession - and it's just never enough. One cannot compensate for a spiritual difficulty through materialism. What does this realization have to do with typology? Nothing. But if I hadn't been pondering the issue of his puzzling type the rest might not have occurred to me.

And if this is such a terrible, awful thread as you stated in someone's comment section, why not ask for it to be closed?
 

PeaceBaby

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And if this is such a terrible, awful thread as you stated in someone's comment section, why not ask for it to be closed?

I wasn't talking about this thread at all. I have replied to that point on your wall already. Your extrapolation on that conversation was inaccurate because it was incomplete.
 

Mal12345

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I wasn't talking about this thread at all. I have replied to that point on your wall already. Your extrapolation on that conversation was inaccurate because it was incomplete.

Extrapo... what?
 

Mal12345

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Whatever. I don't read Jag's one-liners. I vote for this "terrible" thread to be closed just to put a stop to the lies. :bye:
 

PeaceBaby

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Whatever. I don't read Jag's one-liners. I vote for this "terrible" thread to be closed just to put a stop to the lies. :bye:

It's so ironic because I am genuinely trying to understand your POV. There is no lie. But, believe what you choose.
 
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