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  1. #41
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    This has now become silly.
    If you believe so, you're welcome to stop.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ginkgo View Post
    The reason I'm leery of simulatedworld's theories isn't necessarily that they're relative, it's that I simply disagree with a few of them in terms of how he describes the actual cognitive processing, more specifically his interpretation of Ni, Se, and especially Fi. Granted, he has come quite a ways since his days of Fi bashing.

    What's more worrying are those that read and either misunderstand him because they're out of touch with his sources, or adopt it without scrutiny. We both know that he's privy of Jung and Lenore Thomson, and his views are both his greatest strengths and his greatest weakness.
    I don't know what his big deal is with defining the FAs. It's old hat.
    There's enough good books out there available to anyone.
    If memory serves me, his fav way to describe Te was merely: "Shit."
    That's not exactly someone I take seriously. Lol.

    If there are people actually adopting his "profiles" without scrutiny, frankly, that tells me more about them, than Sim.

  3. #43
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    You went from "I don't see it as the Answer" to "that doesn't mean the system is entirely useless." If that summed up my argument, it would be a complete non sequitur. But it's not an argument I made.

    I know that what it comes down to here is that my main message is too abstract. I have found that terms such as "non sequitur" simply whoosh. In any attempt to criticize a comment's logic, the commenter simply presses the mental reset button and repeats the same argument.

    I don't know why you feel attacked or something, you're not on my plonk list, or even potential plonk list.
    I don't read "feel attacked" in OrangeAppled's post at all. Do you believe her comments emotionally delivered? 99% probability they weren't ...

    She asked, "Who views it (JCF) as an Answer? An Answer to what?" That question was in direct response to your thread title. The capital "A" was meant to emphasize, as you did yourself, the "holy grail" aspect of finding an ultimate answer. Her response was not intended as an argument per se. They were counterpoints to the potential extrapolation, "JCF's have no value" somewhat implied in your OP.

    The problem I find with your posts is that I fail to see what your question is too. You share your thoughts in a manner that seems to communicate you are searching for an answer, but what they really are are position points to forward your already formulated thoughts. A vehicle of sorts to stand on a personal soap box I guess. If it's a grand statement you are making, just say what you want. If you want to rant or debate, maybe you should say so up front too. This is not dissimilar to INFP's sharing how they feel and the Fe'ers in the crowd wondering what they are trying to leverage through this outpouring of emotion. Usually nothing, actually. That's why I think for INTP's and INFP's it's how we come to understand and refine ideas so I personally have no problem with that.

    But, gah, we all wonder, Fe'ers and Te'ers alike - what is the point? What are you trying to accomplish here? It is an important question to at least consider asking oneself.

    I don't share this with any malice; it would be nice to share your opinion plainly without everyone trying to figure out what you're getting at or playing at. The messenger muddies the message here. People are reading in motivations that may or may not exist, and it's the source of the ire against you.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  4. #44
    Ginkgo
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
    If there are people actually adopting his "profiles" without scrutiny, frankly, that tells me more about them, than Sim.
    Yes that's their responsibility.

  5. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by OrangeAppled View Post
    Who views it as an "Answer"? An answer to what?
    I just view it as a categorization system of thought processes based on intangible qualities percieved in people. Obviously, there is no literal "Ti" process in the brain. Obviously, there is no foolproof way of determining a person's type, including your own.

    I consider it to be like categorizing other human traits. Even visible ones aren't always agreed upon. For example, there are 5 basic hair color categories: red, brown, blond & black. We all know there are more than 5 hair colors in the world. There are infinite colors. However, most of us can identify a category that fits our hair color best, and determine one for others. Having very distinct categories makes it easier to choose one, instead of being stuck between two similar categories with only small, nuanced differences. Occasionally, you will look at someone & see dark blond hair, but someone else sees light brown hair, and so now the best category for their hair color is very much a matter of individual perspective. I see personality typology in a similar vein. The best type match can be a matter of perspective, and some people don't fit as neatly into one category as others. That doesn't mean the whole system is entirely useless, it's just limited in what it can describe.
    This is my take on it as well. What is the question we are discussing that JCF isn't the answer to?

  6. #46
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    I don't read "feel attacked" in OrangeAppled's post at all. Do you believe her comments emotionally delivered? 99% probability they weren't ...

    She asked, "Who views it (JCF) as an Answer? An Answer to what?" That question was in direct response to your thread title. The capital "A" was meant to emphasize, as you did yourself, the "holy grail" aspect of finding an ultimate answer. Her response was not intended as an argument per se. They were counterpoints to the potential extrapolation, "JCF's have no value" somewhat implied in your OP.

    The problem I find with your posts is that I fail to see what your question is too. You share your thoughts in a manner that seems to communicate you are searching for an answer, but what they really are are position points to forward your already formulated thoughts. A vehicle of sorts to stand on a personal soap box I guess. If it's a grand statement you are making, just say what you want. If you want to rant or debate, maybe you should say so up front too. This is not dissimilar to INFP's sharing how they feel and the Fe'ers in the crowd wondering what they are trying to leverage through this outpouring of emotion. Usually nothing, actually. That's why I think for INTP's and INFP's it's how we come to understand and refine ideas so I personally have no problem with that.

    But, gah, we all wonder, Fe'ers and Te'ers alike - what is the point? What are you trying to accomplish here? It is an important question to at least consider asking oneself.

    I don't share this with any malice; it would be nice to share your opinion plainly without everyone trying to figure out what you're getting at or playing at. The messenger muddies the message here. People are reading in motivations that may or may not exist, and it's the source of the ire against you.
    Wow, thanks for informing me about some ire against me. I have some ire too, against those who have made my plonk list.
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.

  7. #47
    Senior Member Jaguar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Wow, thanks for informing me about some ire against me. I have some ire too, against those who have made my plonk list.
    You addressed none of PB's points.
    Do you have anything to offer other than your plonk list?

  8. #48
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Wow, thanks for informing me about some ire against me. I have some ire too, against those who have made my plonk list.
    You're welcome. I still am interested in your answer though, to - what is the question?

    P.S. I had to google plonk list ... do you put the plonkers on ignore?
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

  9. #49
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    You're welcome. I still am interested in your answer though, to - what is the question?
    Umm, I forgot...

    Quote Originally Posted by PeaceBaby View Post
    P.S. I had to google plonk list ... do you put the plonkers on ignore?
    Yes. But plonking is far better than planking...
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MC5Q6SGwDM
    "If you try to build something that is idiot-proof, the universe will build a better idiot."
    I'm an extrovert trapped within an introverted soul.

  10. #50
    reborn PeaceBaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Umm, I forgot...
    Actually, I do have some questions. What would you propose to replace MBTI / JCF? Do you know of any current theory or see any system that could? Or are you working on that yourself?

    I would like a reply - that is, if you haven't plonked me.

    Planking I do not understand. Learned about that a few months ago. Don't see the appeal lol.
    "Remember always that you not only have the right to be an individual, you have an obligation to be one."
    Eleanor Roosevelt


    "When people see some things as beautiful,
    other things become ugly.
    When people see some things as good,
    other things become bad."
    Lao Tzu, Tao Te Ching

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