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  1. #1
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Default Americanization of profiles

    I am curious if anyone else noticed that the entire thing about MBTI and ennegram profiles does not fit the reality always since the profiles are americanized or at least westernized ?


    For example: X will have a hard time being bossed around and as soon it is possible it will start its own business.

    Now the prooblem is that this person could have lived in communist country. So the only way to the top is through the hierarchy of the party. What will force this type to act alot more like some other type.


    Also you can live in a country where economy is not product/goal based. I know that this sounds impossible to some one that lives in USA like country but trust me it is possible. Many countries were viped from the map for a reson.



    Also that some tipes basically always end in college but no where it says what happens when there is no one around offering student loans and the person lives somehwere in pretty rural area.


    Another example is: they are often very spiritual and helpful.
    But the question is what happens when being spiritual becomes illegal ? Will that person still be so helpful and friendly ... or it will run to the hills are nurture the spirituality there. Even at the cost of ...... extroversion for example.





    I am wondering if anyone else noticed that because of unamerican environment types sometimes behave pretty differently from what they are supposed to ?


    Also if the country is being restructured on the fundamental level would it also make sense that some people change some to their typological preferances ?

  2. #2
    pathwise dependent FDG's Avatar
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    I am wondering if anyone else noticed that because of unamerican environment types sometimes behave pretty differently from what they are supposed to ?
    Yes, that's something I noticed quite early. Social behavior might still be similar, but MBTI often tries to relate behavioral traits to specific characteristics (jobs, titles, degrees, etc.), that's where the excessive westernization is visible.
    ENTj 7-3-8 sx/sp

  3. #3
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Totally. One of the big issues is that profiles are slanted toward Western culture.

    What's an N look like, for example, in an Asian culture highly regulated by social custom/"face"? How does N properly express itself?

    There's also problems with things like types with a primary/secondary in Si; a lot of the descriptions are too specific and seem based on what Si types would have looked like in the 50-60's US culture, vs what they might look like if being raised today.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  4. #4
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    This read reminds me of Cheekymuffin who I had a fantastic 15 second conversation with.

    'What is your MBTI?'
    'INTJ.'
    'Does that have Ni?'
    'Yes.'
    'Are you Asian?'
    'No.'
    'Only Asians have Ni!'
    'Orly!?'

  5. #5
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    Totally. One of the big issues is that profiles are slanted toward Western culture.

    What's an N look like, for example, in an Asian culture highly regulated by social custom/"face"? How does N properly express itself?

    There's also problems with things like types with a primary/secondary in Si; a lot of the descriptions are too specific and seem based on what Si types would have looked like in the 50-60's US culture, vs what they might look like if being raised today.

    Yeah, I can see that happening as well.


    As for asians: I am from eastern europe which has a similar heritage of brutal goverments so I will say "It is not expressed" as an answer . The logic and social structures of the society is very S. So being a strong intutive is usually pretty alienating by default in this part of the word. (tip: see my profile name)

  6. #6
    my floof is luxury Wind Up Rex's Avatar
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    I can't speak to Enneagram, but Briggs-Meyers and her mother developed MBTI for the American workforce. That there's a certain level of cultural bias is not only unsurprising, its to be expected; the system wasn't intended to be universal. It's more curious to me that MBTI was exported wholesale, rather than simply the idea of it.

    I'm also curious, Antisocial One, what your feelings are on Socionics in terms of cultural bias. I don't know as much about that particular typology, but I know its non-Western. Do you feel it contains similar biases?
    And so long as you haven’t experienced this: to die and so to grow,
    you are only a troubled guest on the dark earth

  7. #7
    Senior Member Viridian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    There's also problems with things like types with a primary/secondary in Si; a lot of the descriptions are too specific and seem based on what Si types would have looked like in the 50-60's US culture, vs what they might look like if being raised today.
    Yes, that's a big issue - how do you detect SJs in our internet age based only on those stereotypes? True, "tradition" is a concept practically inherent to culture, but it manifests itself differently everywhere.

    I don't think it's wise to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say MBTI works only in some cultures, though - we just need to look at the processes instead of the opinion/habits/whatever. Though I do think a culture that encourages the strengths of all types is a healthy one (does that make me an imperialist?).

  8. #8
    @.~*virinaĉo*~.@ Totenkindly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Viridian View Post
    I don't think it's wise to throw the baby out with the bathwater and say MBTI works only in some cultures, though - we just need to look at the processes instead of the opinion/habits/whatever.
    Yes, we need to discern the underlying concepts rather than focusing on the cultural details.
    "Hey Capa -- We're only stardust." ~ "Sunshine"

    “Pleasure to me is wonder—the unexplored, the unexpected, the thing that is hidden and the changeless thing that lurks behind superficial mutability. To trace the remote in the immediate; the eternal in the ephemeral; the past in the present; the infinite in the finite; these are to me the springs of delight and beauty.” ~ H.P. Lovecraft

  9. #9
    Queen hunter Virtual ghost's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    I can't speak to Enneagram, but Briggs-Meyers and her mother developed MBTI for the American workforce. That there's a certain level of cultural bias is not only unsurprising, its to be expected; the system wasn't intended to be universal. It's more curious to me that MBTI was exported wholesale, rather than simply the idea of it.

    I'm also curious, Antisocial One, what your feelings are on Socionics in terms of cultural bias. I don't know as much about that particular typology, but I know its non-Western. Do you feel it contains similar biases?

    As far as I know the socionics is Russian invention. What is much closer to my eastern european location and culture.


    However the differances between socionics and MBTI dont look as that big. Functions are differently organized but the overall impression is pretty similar. But ok I did not read the tons of type profiles .



    The thing is that I am wondering about this topic for a while because I have noticed that what I see in reality is often not what MBTI is suggesting.
    For example the stereotypical SJs are pretty rare here. Our SJs usually behave more like SPs actually. So I am wondering if all those people are actually SPs. What would then suggest completely different type ratios in the population.

  10. #10
    Senior Member sulfit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wind-up Rex View Post
    I'm also curious, Antisocial One, what your feelings are on Socionics in terms of cultural bias. I don't know as much about that particular typology, but I know its non-Western. Do you feel it contains similar biases?
    Socionics profiles are more Russia-nized since that system was developed in Eastern Europe, so they might be more compatible with communist countries.

    There is also something that is called Quadra Progression which tries to explain political and social developments based on types despite the country affiliation.

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