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  1. #11

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    I've always tested as an ISTJ but strenght of each has shifted through the years, most definitely due to the different periods of my life when I've taken the test.

    Ex: I and E were more equal during college; J more pronounced while I was employed.

    I don't have any children but I wonder how much my type/hubby's type will play in theirs, if any.

  2. #12
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    I was a stereotypical ENTJ as a kid. I was a "model" kid. Got good grades at school, sucked up to the teachers, was always trying to do the right thing, was well organized, would tell others off if they did something "wrong". I had alot of the usual NT interests such as learning about computers, astronomy, science, etc.

    During my teenage years, I became a pretty strong rebel. I stopped studying and became confrontational. I thought that if I wanted to look cool I should come off like a "P". Got really bad grades at school. I spent my time thinking about girls and music. I was much more sensitive and disorganized. I was a typical nice guy and was nearly best friends with all the girls... a hopeless romantic! Late teen years I became more introverted. I became very, very laid back.

    The very first time I took something similar to the MBTI... the keirsey temperament test... I scored ENFP. I couldn't imagine at the time how I could be a thinker or a judger, as that just seemed like "bad" personality traits I was trying to get rid of. In early 20's I gradually got my T and J back. Was more like an ENTP then... and my J started kicking in gradually. I had the chance to take the official MBTI test and found out in horror I scored ENTJ. I dismissed it and thought the ENTP profile was much more accurate. Then, after leaving it on one side, I gradually started understanding that some of the problems I had been running into all along were typical to my type. There was no doubt about my MBTI type anymore...

  3. #13
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Default Spoiling MBTI's reliability through retesting

    The other issue you brought up was the possibility of spoiling the reliability of the indicator through frequent use or understanding the theory.

    My instructor, Gerald MacDaid, recommended never taking the MBTI instrument more than twice. If you are still unclear on a best-fit type, you should work on self-validation. The MBTI may narrow the field of candidates for "best-fit" down from 16 to two or four--that's still better than trying to select from 16! IIRC, part of MacDaid's caution for retesting was based on spoiling the usefulness of the indicator from familiarity.

    By the way, the odds of the MBTI returning the exact same type on retest BY CHANCE is 6.25%. The reliability of the MBTI on retest for 4 letters is between 55 - 80%; for 3 letters, the reliability of retest is between 20 - 38%.

    The other thing to keep in mind--the scores from MBTI results say more about the indicator than they do about the client. The scores are called "PCIs"--preference clarity indicators. They tell you how sure we are that you have a particular preference.

    In fact, practitioners are discouraged from returning the raw scores from an MBTI. Instead, we will provide relative terms such as "Slightly Clear," "Moderately Clear," "Strong," and "Very Clear."

    Part of the "spoiling" may also occur from a confusion of how you are versus what you do. See my comments on developing non-preferred functions on how this might affect reliability.
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  4. #14
    shoshaku jushaku rivercrow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jennifer View Post
    That's the Conventional Wisdom, but I think it's extremely varied, dependent not only upon the person but the environment they are raised in.
    ...
    Anyway, this is partly a tangent, but just examples of how I'm not sure how "good" the conventional wisdom is on this. In the last few weeks, I've seen at least one or two other MBTI writers comment on how the functions seem to kick in earlier than expected.
    Quote Originally Posted by meshou View Post
    I think strong challenges or traumatic experience can have a fairly profound effect on type, though. If life forces you to quick develop new skills, your type may change a little.
    This is why I prefaced with "according to traditional type theory."

    I also suspect that the midlife crisis/middle passage is related to the beginnings of control over the inferior process. Midlife crisis can start as early as the mid-30s, especially if there is life-altering stress or other environmental/individual factors. Rules of thumb, not absolutes.

    As far as type changing--the traditional view is that type does not change. The wiggle room that is permitted is the concept of "true type."

    Quote Originally Posted by MBTI Manual, Third Edition
    The term true type reflects the assumption that every person has an underlying "true" type that may or may not be revealed by a measurement device. As such, the type reported by an individual on the MBTI or in using any other assessment method is always considered to be a hypothesis rather than a "fact."
    Who rises in the morning, looks in the mirror and says, "I think I will do something stupid today?" -- James Hollis
    If people never did silly things nothing intelligent would ever get done. -- Ludwig Wittgenstein
    Whaling is illegal in Oklahoma.

  5. #15
    Senior Member Shimpei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Res Ipsa Loquitur View Post
    I don't have any children but I wonder how much my type/hubby's type will play in theirs, if any.
    My Mom is ESFJ, my Dad is INTP, so total opposites. My brother is INTP and I'm an ISFJ. Probably there's some connection...

  6. #16
    Senior Member something boring's Avatar
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    Default *bump*

    I tested INJ as a child. My daughter's results are EFJ. I'm interested to see whether she'll end up with S or N. Either way, she always knows where the car is parked. Together, we can't get through the grocery store without learning something deeply personal about nearly everyone in it. People talk to me a lot, but damn.... she seeks others out, and they talk to her a lot. If I go by myself, one or two people will have walked up and told me all about their day, or asked for help with something. With her, it's like 20. Raising such an extroverted child forces me make contact with planet earth a lot more frequently, which is probably a good thing. All in all, I think I lucked out, since her type will evolve into a person who either speaks my language fluently, or arrives at a similar conclusion, albeit by vastly different means. I know type isn't everything, but theoretically, it seems like it'd be easier to raise (and maintain a close bond with) a child who views the world in a similar way. She has been a remarkably easy child.
    "Don�t ask what the world needs. Ask what makes you come alive, and go do it. Because what the world needs is people who have come alive." - Howard Thurman


    [SIGPIC]http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l110/evillinclinations/fortune45.gif[/SIGPIC]

    ...and yes, I'm still on about that...






  7. #17
    Member Johnfloyd6675's Avatar
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    It's probably possible to design an MBTI-based test for children with consistent, correct-sounding results. From ages 6 to around 12, some sort of personality exists in a child. Then around 13, there's an explosion in a chemical facility located in your underpants, and it takes about 5 years to construct a new personality that lasts more than a week. The inherent unpredictability of adolescent behavior suggests to me that only truly boring people are the same person at 25 as they were at 6.

    Of course, they will at some point discover genetic predispositions towards functions and attitudes, and probably some genotypes that, hell or high water, express themselves as a phenotype. But nurture (and the more-important lack thereof) has a hell of a lot of say in what answers a person gives on an MBTI.
    "The human body must be something other than an animal organism." - Martin Heidegger

  8. #18
    Courage is immortality Valiant's Avatar
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    My memory is fairly good, I remember how I thought, felt and reasoned before I was twelve without any problem.
    I was doubtlessly some form of NTJ back then, too. I'm really on the divide between I and E still, as I was then.

    It's those years in between twelve/thirteen and my current twenty-three that have varied a lot.
    I've been bullied, beaten, heartbroken, educated, broken a few bones, burned myself and generally soaked up stuff while collecting knowledge and learning new sides to life.
    I guess you could call those things function development.
    But, I came back to the XNTJ fold when I was "done", so to speak.
    Of course i'm not entirely done yet. I will need to improve upon Si a lot more and continue learning and maintaining the others.

    I've always been Ni-dominant, no question about it. Always strong Te, as well.
    On the other hand, I have spent lots of my life acting like almost any types except the bad caricature of the "evil SJs".
    I've spent time as: ENTJ, ESTP, ENFP, INTP, ENTP, ENFJ, INFP, INFJ and a bunch of others.
    I even have a few ESFJ tendencies in some situations where i'm organizing things.
    It's really odd and hard to pin down a type sometimes.
    My talents are fairly broad over the whole spectrum, except some Si-related things like sense of direction and learning movement patterns.
    My hand-eye coordination is really good though, etc... Freaking strange.
    I rule at Se and Si is my real Achilles heel.


    Anyway, it can change wildly. Especially if the kid is having a tough time and actually learns from it through transformation.

    This very "transformation" is a part of what makes us human in the first place.
    While there is always a core of our inner self, the rest is fairly malleable and essentially a place to fill with skills, insight and knowledge.
    That is adaptation. That's what puts us at the top of the current food-chain.
    Not being consistent all the time is actually a good thing if you look at it this way.

    Mightier than the tread of marching armies is the power of an idea whose time has come

  9. #19
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    MBTI is not based on evidence or reason and has an immoral provenance.

    So it seems there are better things to do than introduce our children to MBTI.

  10. #20
    Senior Member KDude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Victor View Post
    immoral provenance.



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