Type my son

[ReflecTcelfeR]

Well, in your favor it's hard for me to take Psychology seriously as a science, at least these aspects because of that reason. Results usually cannot be replicated with accuracy. Unless it's tied to some sort of other science, mainly biology and physiology. Without those two psychology doesn't really have any scientific basis. However, I would say that just because you can't disprove it doesn't mean no one can and so it may still have a chance at being considered a science. I don't mean to say that you haven't because I haven't read articles and to be honest I don't know what it would actually take to disprove it specifically, but I just don't want to completely throw this out the window because of lack of motivation.

 

[InvisibleJim]

And are folks positing in this thread that primarily Si and Se inferior types are "HSP"? That's interesting, but I can't find any research to support that.

Plus anecdotally, I know plenty of "sensitive" individuals of many types, with Se or Si higher in function order. It may be more of an introverted tendency in general.

I recommend Psychological types page 462.

The primary function of intuition is to transmit
mere images, or perceptions of relations and conditions,
which could be gained by the other functions, either not
at all, or only by very roundabout ways. Such images
have the value of definite discernments, and have a decisive
bearing upon action, whenever intuition is given the chief
weight; in which case, psychic adaptation is based
almost exclusively upon intuition. Thinking, feeling,
and sensation are relatively repressed ; of these, sensation
is the one principally affected, because, as the conscious
function of sense, it offers the greatest obstacle to intuition.
Sensation disturbs intuition's dear, unbiassed, naive awareness
with its importunate sensuous stimuli; for these
direct the glance upon the physical superficies, hence upon
the very things round and beyond which intuition tries
to peer. But since intuition, in the extraverted attitude,
has a prevailingly objective orientation, it actually comes
very near to sensation ; indeed, the expectant attitude
towards outer objects may, with almost equal probability,
avail itself of sensation.

And also Psychological types Page 510 on Introverted Intuitives.

The introverted intuitive's chief repression falls upon
the sensation of the object. His unconscious is characterized
by this fact. For we find in his unconscious a compensatory
extraverted sensation function of an archaic
character. The unconscious personality may, therefore,
best be described as an extraverted sensation-type of a
rather low and primitive order. Impulsiveness and unrestraint
are the characters of this sensation, combined
with an extraordinary dependence upon the sense impression.
This latter quality is a compensation to the
thin upper air of the conscious attitude, giving it a certain
weight, so that complete
' sublimation '
is prevented. But
if, through a forced exaggeration of the conscious attitude,
a complete subordination to the inner perception should
develop, the unconscious becomes an opposition, giving
rise to compulsive sensations whose excessive dependence
upon the object is in frank conflict with the conscious
attitude. The form of neurosis is a compulsion-neurosis,
exhibiting symptoms that are partly hypochondriacal
manifestations, partly hypersensibility of the sense organs
and partly compulsive ties to definite persons or other
objects.

The problem here is what type is he, not what research supports MBTI, because MBTI and Jung are quite anecdotal.

 

[Mal12345]

Well, in your favor it's hard for me to take Psychology seriously as a science, at least these aspects because of that reason. Results usually cannot be replicated with accuracy. Unless it's tied to some sort of other science, mainly biology and physiology. Without those two psychology doesn't really have any scientific basis. However, I would say that just because you can't disprove it doesn't mean no one can and so it may still have a chance at being considered a science. I don't mean to say that you haven't because I haven't read articles and to be honest I don't know what it would actually take to disprove it specifically, but I just don't want to completely throw this out the window because of lack of motivation.

Are you saying I have to prove that it can't be proven in order to cast it out of the scientific realm? Or are you just equivocating over the word "you"? As in "you can't disprove it" meaning me specifically rather than people in general.

I for one don't entirely lack motivation because I've already partly given the disproof. There are no empirical causes you can point to in order to establish the substance of function theory. It's foundation is entirely noumenal. At best, function talk only constitutes heuristics, as it enables certain scientific knowledge to progress. But it needs to be limited from developing a more religious, dogmatic aspect, in other words, not as mere assumptions, but as Truths.

As for so-called "hypersensitivity," that would also have to involve the over-development of those very senses. People who react very strongly to smells (as in the OP's mentioning of this in her son) are called super-smellers. And this does have a physiological basis, that is, a real, empirical cause.

This video is just about mice:
http://discovermagazine.com/videos/super-smellers

This is a forum of complaints about hypersensitive smelling ability:
http://idreamofbaby.com/forum/showthread.php?167767-Super-Smeller!!!

It is known that most super-smellers are female.

 

[Anew Leaf]

mal, maybe you should take your Ti to a park or something. chase some butterflies. eat KFC and watermelon. watch the clouds go by and see what different shapes they can make.

 

[Mal12345]

mal, maybe you should take your Ti to a park or something. chase some butterflies. eat KFC and watermelon. watch the clouds go by and see what different shapes they can make.

PLONK

 

[Anew Leaf]

PLONK

Saturned: Answer, What is the sound of Ti collapsing into a puddle as its Ne companion scoops it up into a paper bag?

Alex Trebeck: Correct. What is your next category?

Saturned: "The Rapist" for 400, Alex...

 

[PeaceBaby]

As a super-taster and super-smeller myself, I can testify that this thread tastes like over-ripe tomatoes and smells like acidic chili. Blech! Phew!

 

[Mal12345]

I hear you mal12345, but hypersensitivity is most commonly a medical term.

Hypersensitivity:

Occasionally, the immune system responds inappropriately to the presence of antigen. These responses are refered to as hypersensitivities. There are four different types of hypersensitivities that result from different alterations of the immune system. These types are classified as:
Type I: Immediate Hypersensitivity
Type II: Cytotoxic Hypersensitivity
Type III: Immune Complex Hypersensitivity
Type IV: Delayed Hypersensitivity​

--Source: http://www.cehs.siu.edu/fix/medmicro/hyper.htm


So what do you both mean as "hypersensitive?"

I thought I answered that I was just going along with Jim's terminology. You can find the correct medical term. And in INTP's post there was a mention of hypersensitive Ni types. "...partly hypersensibility of the sense organs and partly compulsive ties to definite persons or other objects."

 

[Mal12345]

As a super-taster and super-smeller myself, I can testify that this thread tastes like over-ripe tomatoes and smells like acidic chili. Blech! Phew!

Do you relate that ability to your personality type?

 

[PeaceBaby]

^ re hypersensitivity, I was hoping to see Jim here too to corroborate on definition, and perhaps choose a better word.

re super-smellin' / tastin' - nope, hadn't thought about that. I only found this fact out a couple of weeks ago though. I have a lot of taste-buds on my tongue apparently. I considered genetics and gender but took the thought no further.

 

[InvisibleJim]

^ re hypersensitivity, I was hoping to see Jim here too to corroborate on definition, and perhaps choose a better word too.

re super-smellin' / tastin' - nope, hadn't thought about that. I only found this fact out a couple of weeks ago though. I have a lot of taste-buds on my tongue apparently. I considered genetics and gender but took the thought no further.

Hypersensitivity would be extreme reactions to sensory phenomenon and sudden changes in the environment. We all think we have super-senses but if people are overwhelmed or overreact that is hypersensitivity.

 

[PeaceBaby]

^ so that's your definition then. Thanks.

Here's a link I found on HSP research, with some ref to MBTI - for the interested, I post it here: Sensory-Processing Sensitivity and Its Relation to Introversion and Emotionality

Abstract: Over a series of 7 studies that used diverse samples and measures, this research identified a unidimensional core variable of high sensory-processing sensitivity and demonstrated its partial independence from social introversion and emotionality, variables with which it had been confused or subsumed in most previous theorizing by personality researchers. Additional findings were that there appear to be 2 distinct clusters of highly sensitive individuals (a smaller group with an unhappy childhood and related variables, and a larger group similar to nonhighly sensitive individuals except for their sensitivity) and that sensitivity moderates, at least for men, the relation of parental environment to reporting having had an unhappy childhood. This research also demonstrated adequate reliability and content, convergent, and discriminant validity for a 27-item Highly Sensitive Person Scale.​

Lily Flower, sorry for this level of derail.

Gents, invent a new word for your constellation of reactions to sensory phenomena - I'll suggest one, how about, ultrasensoriousness.

ultrasensoriousness: extreme reactions to sensory phenomenon and sudden changes in the environment

And with that, I am outta here!

 

[Anew Leaf]

^ so that's your definition then. Thanks.

Here's a link I found on HSP research, with some ref to MBTI - for the interested, I post it here: Sensory-Processing Sensitivity and Its Relation to Introversion and Emotionality

Abstract: Over a series of 7 studies that used diverse samples and measures, this research identified a unidimensional core variable of high sensory-processing sensitivity and demonstrated its partial independence from social introversion and emotionality, variables with which it had been confused or subsumed in most previous theorizing by personality researchers. Additional findings were that there appear to be 2 distinct clusters of highly sensitive individuals (a smaller group with an unhappy childhood and related variables, and a larger group similar to nonhighly sensitive individuals except for their sensitivity) and that sensitivity moderates, at least for men, the relation of parental environment to reporting having had an unhappy childhood. This research also demonstrated adequate reliability and content, convergent, and discriminant validity for a 27-item Highly Sensitive Person Scale.​

Lily Flower, sorry for this level of derail.

Gents, invent a new word for your constellation of reactions to sensory phenomena - I'll suggest one, how about, ultrasensoriousness.

ultrasensoriousness: extreme reactions to sensory phenomenon and sudden changes in the environment

And with that, I am outta here!

I am going to go with "ultrahypersuper-Ti-itis."

 

[Agent Jelly]

Sounds XSTP to me honestly.

 

[Mal12345]

Hypersensitivity would be extreme reactions to sensory phenomenon and sudden changes in the environment. We all think we have super-senses but if people are overwhelmed or overreact that is hypersensitivity.

Perhaps what Lily's talking about is a person who often is deep in thought and is disturbed easily by sounds. The "smelling" issue might not even be related.

If the "hypersensitivity" or "ultrasensoriousness" issue is related to Ni, then it is easy to explain why that trait is found in an introversion test.

I don't like the second term, it is even harder to type out than the first.

 

[Anew Leaf]

Perhaps what Lily's talking about is a person who often is deep in thought and is disturbed easily by sounds. The "smelling" issue might not even be related.

If the "hypersensitivity" or "ultrasensoriousness" issue is related to Ni, then it is easy to explain why that trait is found in an introversion test.

I don't like the second term, it is even harder to type out than the first.

Maybe your Ti needs a vacation actually:

 

[InvisibleJim]

Lily Flower, sorry for this level of derail.

You have yet to show anything in contradiction to sensory reaction. Are you also trying to Salomé the discussion by posting and quoting 'totally germané resources' that do nothing other than use the word 'sensitive' but do not define it just as mal spent approximately 48 hours talking about introversion correlates and thus IS hypersensitivity with nothing more than a questionairre?

I lolled. Apology accepted.

Post Edit: You should note that although the above source references introversion on the MBTI classification on 37 sample points it used the Big Five scale for the rest. Since the big 5 scale correlates with behavioural Kerisey testing more than MBTI as Jungian cognitive testing then it's all a little bit jumbled attempting to draw any real conclusions regarding it.

I'm still going to say: Why do you really believe that correlation = causation?

 

[Mal12345]

You have yet to show anything in contradiction to sensory reaction. Are you also trying to Salomé the discussion by posting and quoting 'totally germané resources' that do nothing other than use the word 'sensitive' but do not define it just as mal spent approximately 48 hours talking about introversion correlates and thus IS hypersensitivity with nothing more than a questionairre?

I lolled. Apology accepted.

What is all this "salami the discussion" about anyway? I've been hanging around forums for over 12 1/2 years and have never seen that term used before.

As for my citing and defending the introversion questionnaire, I think you can give me a better criticism than that. In fact, I know you can.

 

[PeaceBaby]

If I understand it right Jim, you are saying that inferior Se is potentially a causative factor in what constitutes this state of ultrasensoriousness, so I am interested in you proving that (beyond anecdotal references). It's not my job to disprove your assertion, you prove it.

I objected to you using the word hypersensitivity as well because it doesn't mean what you are trying to say it means.

Then, I got distracted and sussed out HSP references. So, I started my own little derail too. And spent about 2 more hours here than I should have lol

I leave you to get back to your fun though and I need to get some more work done.

 

[InvisibleJim]

If I understand it right Jim, you are saying that inferior Se is potentially a causative factor in what constitutes this state of ultrasensoriousness, so I am interested in you proving that (beyond anecdotal references). It's not my job to disprove your assertion, you prove it.

I objected to you using the word hypersensitivity as well because it doesn't mean what you are trying to say it means.

Then, I got distracted and sussed out HSP references. So, I started my own little derail too. And spent about 2 more hours here than I should have lol

I leave you to get back to your fun though and I need to get some more work done.

Have you read my post quoting Psychological types in #247 ?

A highly sensitive person (HSP) is a person having the innate trait of high psychological sensitivity (or innate sensitiveness as Carl Jung originally coined it) In Psychological Types!