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Type my son

Lily flower

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I'd go with INTJ. No, his IQ isn't 90, but an IQ test actually has to be "interesting" to actually measure that. No 90-IQ kid is going to beat adults at chess.

The psychologist who tested him did say that she felt like he just wanted to rush through everything and go with whatever the easiest answer was. So maybe he just blew off the test. I just wish we could help him figure out what his interests are so he wouldn't be so bored all the time. One of his problems is that he is dyslexic, so he hates reading. I think if he loved reading, he really could engage his brain with whatever his interests are.
 

Lily flower

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Your son sounds like a recluse. But that's how most introverted boys are at that particular age. (Especially the T types.) They want to just spend time alone. With age they would change and be more communicative and friendly. They just need some life expereicne to learn how to deal with people.

And I believe your son is a ISTP. From my experience that's just how ISTPs are when they are young. Until they are around 16 to 17. And I conveniently dismissed ISTJ because he works only when he has to (when he sees rewards). That screams ISTP and not ISTJ. ISTPs are a bit lazy. But when they smell the gold they'll start digging. Digging faster than any other type. And probably would get rid of the competition too. :)

Oh, when he hits 16,17 he'll start noticing girls. Then he'll start acting like a ExFJ :laugh:.

What you said is very interesting. The lazy vs. gold digger is very much him. I will have to read the ISTP descriptions, because I don't think I know any ISTP's.

( Although instead of lazy, I would say it's more, "let me get to the end result as quickly as I can without expending too much energy." It's slightly different than actual laziness, because it shows some intelligence.)
 

Lily flower

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Babies do tend to have lower IQ. And for a 10 year old to have an IQ of 100 is quite good. I am 23 and mine is only 132. IQ has nothing to do with getting good grades though. from what I have noticed students with the best grades are the ones with average IQs. And IQ is a poor way of testing someone's capacity. And it is unfair to subject a 10 year old kid in to one. And I object kids being subjected to tests such as these and ranks. It would only make them feel inadequate. And it is unfair.

And for your information I know students my age with IQs in to their 150s who are total losers when it comes to anything useful, such as getting good grades or accomplishing anything. IQ has nothing to with with one's abilities.

He had the IQ test as a part of a series of tests the school and state required to get him special services. He talks high-level, but was reading at a kindergarten level in 4th grade. We told him the testing was just something the school required since he was new there, and didn't tell him that it had anything to do with his abilities. Since the testing, we are homeschooling him, because he reads at such a low level, but only likes high-level books, especially history. I read everything to him. He says he loves homeschool and never wants to go back to school ever again.
 

Fluffywolf

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From reading this thread, INTJ seems most likely.

There is some perceiver traits in it as well though, so not a very strong judger, but that might be age. A ten year old hardly has his cognative functions under control yet, so there is plenty of room for deviation. The path he seems to be on seems to lead to INTJ nonetheless. :p
 

Little Linguist

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Te and Fi are foreign to Fe and Ti. Worse with this Se inferior and the accompanying hypersensitivity to stimuli such as smell and the according need for the kid to keep his head and physical distance from people.

Yeah. Makes sense, I suppose.
 

Lily flower

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Just a few random things...

He actually was not difficult to calm down as a baby. It's just that he required singing instead of physical-type calming. Once we figured out the singing thing, he was fairly easy to calm down.

IQ scores are supposed to be stable across a person's life. So even though a preschool child would know less as far as book learning than an adult, they would still score similarly in IQ as an adult, as they did on the child-version (WISC I think it is called). So babies do not have low IQ's. They just have low knowledge. No one can test a baby's IQ anyway. IQ scores only test math and linguistic types of intelligence. They don't test musical or kinesthetic or any of those types of intelligence.

Labels are a compicated thing. They really do help people (with a sense of relief). Children know they are different without the label and sometimes it helps to know that there is a reason they are different. However, labels can also be limiting. We had one "expert" really scare us with an assessment of our son, and he has already out-performed her doom and gloom predictions, so we have to be careful not to let labels be limiting. I kind of laugh at people who protest labeling on this website, since the whole Myers-Briggs is about labeling to help us understand ourselves and each other. If you hate labeling, why are you on here, anyway?

This is totally off topic, but since it was on this discussion - Just because people are religious or have sexual standards, doesn't mean they are prudes. My husband and I fall in the conservative Christian category and so we (and many of our friends) believe that you are supposed to wait until you are married until you have sex. But that doesn't mean that it's boring after that! When you are with just one person, you can get to know them so well that you can really let yourself go. So I don't think that is prudish at all. Now I don't know about the SJ's, since my husband and I are N's, and I do know a couple of prudes that we are friends with as well, but religious does not equal prudish. Unless you think that prudish means not having sex with a lot of people. All I know is, we don't have any diseases, we were never surprised by any unwanted pregnancies, we don't have any weird "ex" problems, and we trust each other not to cheat at a much higher level than most couples. It's good stuff.
 

Elfboy

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That test does not distinguish S from N. Apparently they are not differentiated in children. Whatever his interests are they should be encouraged, whatever they are, whether it's chess or football, and whatever his type happens to be.

N and S are more differentiated in children not less.
 

Mal12345

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So therefore you have decided to advocate labels to other peoples children via the medium of a typology forum. Are you a trained psychological practitioner?

I have about the same training as everybody else around here.

In shocking obviousness children who are disinterested score lower in boring tests. So do disinterested adults.

However, you have no clue as to the reason for lily's 10 year old son scoring 91 on an IQ test, or what his mindset was while taking the test, or even what kind of test it was since IQ tests don't even have to be done on paper. You simply assumed - on the basis of a label she gave him - that lily's "INTJ" son was bored with his IQ test and therefore got a lower score than he should have.

You took a diagnosed "label" from someone with as much formal training as I have and decided that you could infer all this other stuff about him.
 

Mal12345

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N and S are more differentiated in children not less.

Actually, the scoring system on that test follows a different rule than that. Sometimes it omits scores for N/S and sometime F/T. In lily's result it purposely left out the F/T, which is silly because he was obviously a T from her description. Or is the test-maker claiming that her Grand Strategist child could turn around in a few years and become a touchy-feeling F?
 

Elfboy

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Actually, the scoring system on that test follows a different rule than that. Sometimes it omits scores for N/S and sometime F/T. In lily's result it purposely left out the F/T, which is silly because he was obviously a T from her description. Or is the test-maker claiming that her Grand Strategist child could turn around in a few years and become a touchy-feeling F?

oh, you were simply stating the nature of the test. in that case, I redirect my disagreement and say that the test is whack if it leaves out N/S or F/T
 

Mal12345

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And I am so very glad that where I come from is not the same.

http://www.extremeintellect.com/ei2007/IQ/IQtestlist.html

Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children®—Fourth Edition Integrated (WISC®—IV Integrated) David Wechsler
Ages for the test: between 6 and 16 years of age.
The test includes 16 Subtests:

Verbal
1. Similarities Multiple Choice (SIMC)
2. Vocabulary Multiple Choice (VCMC)
3. Picture Vocabulary Multiple Choice (PVMC)
4. Comprehension Multiple Choice (COMC)
5. Information Multiple Choice (INMC)
Perceptual
6. Block Design Multiple Choice (BDMC)
7. Block Design Process Approach (BDPA)
Memory
8. Visual Digit Span (VDS)
9. Spatial Span (SSp)
10. Letter Span (LS)
11. Letter-Number Sequencing Process Approach (LNPA)
12. Arithmetic Process Approach (APRA)
13. Written Arithmetic (WA)
Processing Speed
14. Coding Recall (CDR)
15. Coding Copy (CDC)
Executive Function
16. Elithorn Mazes (EM)

"Block Design" :shudders:
 

Mal12345

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oh, you were simply stating the nature of the test. in that case, I redirect my disagreement and say that the test is whack if it leaves out N/S or F/T

I was at work at the time and so I had only a chance to glance at the test site in between fending off Marmie's wild-eyed claims. :shock:
 

Mal12345

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I looked up the "block design" portion of the WISC test. "Block Design - copying small geometric designs with two, three, or four plastic cubes while viewing a constructed model or a picture within a specified time limit."

While I wouldn't consider this to be the same as puppy torture, as in Colombo's post above, the time limit on IQ tests has always bugged me.

And there's also this: "Wechsler Preschool and Primary Scale of Intelligence™—Third Edition (WPPSI™–III) David Wechsler
Ages for the test: Age Range: 2 years 6 months – 3 years 11months and 4 years 7years 3 months of age"

2 years 6 months? SHAME!
 

Mal12345

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Originally Posted by InvisibleJim
"Te and Fi are foreign to Fe and Ti. Worse with this Se inferior and the accompanying hypersensitivity to stimuli such as smell and the according need for the kid to keep his head and physical distance from people."

Yeah. Makes sense, I suppose.

Really?

Hypersensitivity to stimuli has to do with introversion. First question on the page at the link below:

"I sometimes have strong reactions to smells, tastes, foods, weather, noises, etc."

This is due to the fact that introverts need less stimulation to be overwhelmed than extroverts.

https://docs.google.com/viewer?pid=...c846bcefae049dfaccd1e&a=bi&pagenumber=2&w=800
 

Kierva

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Sounds like me when I was young, except that I am way more vocal and aggressive.
 

uumlau

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Thanks for this post. It's a relief to think that he is probably just being his normal self. Sometimes I feel bad for him, because he is in a family of teacher/counselor lovey types. I wonder if that's unpleasant for him. I know it would be unpleasant for me to be in a family of mostly NT's.

I loved the story about your parents and the prom. Funny!
Yeah, it probably makes for a bit of a disconnect. I note you've indicated your type as INFJ. That means, to a degree, you kind of think like him: you can just observe a situation and immediately grasp its meaning. The difference is that you see the Fe-meaning, which is good at evaluating people dynamics and other areas where strict logical analysis would fail. Assuming he's INTJ, he's going to be just as good at gleaning meaning, but he applies Te, which (as you note of him) is terrible at dealing with people dynamics, but great at chess and strategy. As long as something can be logically picked apart and studied, he'll be great at understanding it.

Where you can help him on the people stuff is to give him basic rules so that even if he's a social klutz, he generally knows what the right thing to do is. Young INTJs don't read people well, which is why we're very skeptical and suspect lying, because they don't see the context the way an INFJ would. An INFJ would note, "Oh, she's in a bad mood about something," and intuitively know how to avoid triggering any unpleasantness, but the INTJ will often accidentally say the wrong thing, with no ill intent, and catch a lot of crap for it. Make it clear that it's kind of like chess, except the pieces tend to think for themselves and often won't do what you want them to, and he has to work around that.

As for making him feel more comfortable around you, don't pity him. INTJs may be bad around people, but we know the difference between love and pity. So often, people think they're being nice to an INTJ, but the result is that the INTJ feels it as an insult, a lack of understanding, a lack of caring.

The psychologist who tested him did say that she felt like he just wanted to rush through everything and go with whatever the easiest answer was. So maybe he just blew off the test. I just wish we could help him figure out what his interests are so he wouldn't be so bored all the time. One of his problems is that he is dyslexic, so he hates reading. I think if he loved reading, he really could engage his brain with whatever his interests are.
Well, it would seem self-evident that dyslexia would make him test much worse than his real brain power would indicate. I'm sure you know more about dyslexia than I do, but it would seem imperative to try to overcome the dyslexia as much as possible. Many dyslexics, I've read, manage to get by via people skills, "reading people" instead of reading books. He doesn't have the people skills, so he needs to learn how to read as best he can. With experience, his intuition should be able to determine what a sentence or paragraph "really means" without having to read every word and meticulously piece all the bits of information together.

In my case, I'm not dyslexic, but I can still look at a word or phrase and read something entirely nonsensical. My brain sees the symbols and puts them together randomly, but usually in an "almost-sensible" way. For instance, I recall logging onto a windows server a few years ago, and I note out of the corner of my eye that it uses "Happy Threading". I do a double-take, look more carefully, and instead read, for real "Hyper-Threading".

While his reading skills remain weak, perhaps videos might help out. Anything scientific should work, though you know his interests better than I. The Connections series is one I recall enjoying immensely, and should be right up his alley, because it's about how new ideas spontaneously appear based on people/scientists making particular "connections" that no one had made before. The connections are seemingly random, and often don't make sense at first, but James Burke makes it all fit together.

Also, even if he's not so good at reading, he should have the mindset for doing math word problems. If you think about it, math word problems are very similar to the strategy things he's so good at. He intuitively converts everything around him into math-like ideas and comes up with an answer. It should be possible to train that to work on more things than computer games and chess.

Anyway, that's the best I can come up with for now. I wish you and your son all the best.
 

Mal12345

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Really. Correlate =/= causate. I provided a causation.

You provided a fantasy about inferior Se based on a guess at someone's type.

It can't always be about functions. It seems everybody here wants to play the Reductionist fallacy game. Or as Carl Jung called it, "nothing-but." For example,

'The devil has throughout a true Epimethean thinking, the "nothing but" intellectual attitude, which reduces everything living to original
nothingness.'
 

InvisibleJim

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You provided a fantasy about inferior Se based on a guess at someone's type.

He has never enjoyed physical affection.
He is a great strategist. Even though he does poorly on most school work, he can beat adults at games like chess and Risk.
He is very skeptical about commercials and people telling him things in general. He tends to think that people are liars.
He complains about being bored constantly, but doesn't have any specific interests.
He enjoys camping/fishing type activities, board games and video games (he especially likes the games that have you build a medieval castle and village and then attack other castles).
He doesn't seem to have compassion or understanding of other people's feelings, but occasionally he will strongly defend someone who is being bullied or picked on or being treated unjustly.
He loves to argue/debate.
He tends to avoid any type of work, but will work really had to get a reward he wants or to get money to buy a video game.
He has a very strong reaction to smells and noise.
When he was a baby, the only thing that would calm him down was if I sang to him. He wasn't calmed down by rocking or being held like other babies.

I use the evidence provided. Thanks.
 
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