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Thread: Type my son

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    As culture changes (evolves) so do many of these type-descriptions. Many of them are becoming out-dated. But the principle behind them remains the same.
    Right, and I've discussed this in depth with someone who has a profound knowledge of Jung, as well as reading Jung on my own, and I actually understand what Si and Fe do, and that the Keirsey descriptions try to be too specific to particular cultural upbringings, and also too extremely divided from one another, which is why I tend to reject his theory. Keirsey has some overall, generalized good points, I'll agree, but he attempts to be way too specific about things like particular moral beliefs or sexual behavior, which is a logical fallacy. It's quite evident, though, where a man of his age, education, and socio-economic status absorbed those particular stereotypes. Unfortunately, he's kind of missing the core motivations of the cognitive functions and relying too heavily on stereotypes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Nevertheless, I like my formula and I've been using it for a long, long time. I just need to see some good counter-arguments to my claims. If you don't like my disagreement, let me just point out that I often agree with you more than disagree. But I suspect we come from very different generational perspectives.
    While INTJs may excel at a particular style of intelligence, there is no real correlation between being smart and being a particular personality type. Too many people on the Internet mistype themselves as iNtuitives, in my opinion, just because they think they are unique, interesting, different, question things, are educated, and have above average intelligence (which is often true, I'll admit, when you encounter many people on discussion forums they tend to be people who are a little quicker intellectually in many cases) ...but that isn't what really divides Sensors from Intutives.

    The argument that Jung himself was ISTP is very compelling evidence that his theory is the most correct one, as it does not rely on the Keirsey or MBTI stereotypes which perpetuate N-snobbery and bias against Sensors, as it addresses core world views rather than stereotypical cultural ways of being.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily flower View Post
    Any thoughts?
    This is his natural behaviour.

    He needs input, by input I do not intend spinning classes, socialising or making friends or hugging; I mean museums, hobbies (like gaming or chess) and mixing with people who will expand his horizons. He needs space and time to develop his interests and support to be allowed to do so in his own time and in a way that he can repeat.

    He is IxTJ.

    The pre-teens are a time where IxTJ types broaden their horizons to what the world has to offer and to gain interest in topics before they start socializing playing with girls (or boys I suppose) and then later dedicating themselves to a purpose. This is very demarcated and you are just seeing the demarcated 'input please' phase and panicking because you are struggling to understand it.

    If in doubt, your son can tell you all of this. But, he may not choose to do so if you approach it from a socially 'this is what you should be doing' angle and you will infact be bounced back and hard.

  4. #44
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    While INTJs may excel at a particular style of intelligence, there is no real correlation between being smart and being a particular personality type. Too many people on the Internet mistype themselves as iNtuitives, in my opinion, just because they think they are unique, interesting, different, question things, are educated, and have above average intelligence (which is often true, I'll admit, when you encounter many people on discussion forums they tend to be people who are a little quicker intellectually in many cases) ...but that isn't what really divides Sensors from Intutives.

    The argument that Jung himself was ISTP is very compelling evidence that his theory is the most correct one, as it does not rely on the Keirsey or MBTI stereotypes which perpetuate N-snobbery and bias against Sensors, as it addresses core world views rather than stereotypical cultural ways of being.
    Both of your posts above introduce some unusual arguments. I'm certainly not one to be against unusual arguments, I just need a more personal basis for taking them into consideration.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    "When he was a baby, the only thing that would calm him down was if I sang to him. He wasn't calmed down by rocking or being held like other babies."

    Studies on babies indicate that this, unfortunately, signifies a low-level IQ. Do you have any IQ information on him?

    My call is either ISTP or ESTP, based on the personality information you gave and not the IQ or baby-hood behaviors.
    His tested IQ is 91. We were very surprised because our family tends to have high IQ's in general. I never heard that about babies and IQ. Do you happen to remember where you heard/read that? I would be interested in finding out more about that.

  6. #46
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lily flower View Post
    His tested IQ is 91. We were very surprised because our family tends to have high IQ's in general.
    Thank you very much for that information. I know it's not proof of type, but I'm just trying to rule out some of them.

    Coincidentally, just a few days ago I heard from a doctor I know that babies that are hard to calm down have IQs in the low range. He did not specify how low.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Both of your posts above introduce some unusual arguments. I'm certainly not one to be against unusual arguments, I just need a more personal basis for taking them into consideration.
    They aren't unusual arguments at all among people who follow Jungian cognitive function theory and Jungian analysts like Beebe or Lenore Thomson.

    They just address the functional basis for the stereotypes that Keirsey and Myers-Briggs later collectively perpetuated in an obvious attempt to over-simplify personality theory.

    Don't get me wrong - I think Keirsey and Myers-Briggs did add something to the sphere of personality theory knowledge, but typing people based upon outdated stereotypes of culturally normative behaviors isn't really helping anyone reach real self-understanding. Many SJs are offended at the way they're portrayed in these silly on-line descriptions.

    I was even offended when I read Keirsey as someone who feels like a cross between how he portrays NFs and SPs. He left no room in the middle for someone who isn't a fucking social worker or who doesn't want to work in human resources, but also values things like reading and verbal intelligence.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by mal12345 View Post
    Thank you very much for that information. I know it's not proof of type, but I'm just trying to rule out some of them.

    Coincidentally, just a few days ago I heard it from a doctor I know that babies that are hard to calm down have IQs in the low range. He did not specify how low.
    Just a little reminder that Einstein, notorious INTP, had a low tested IQ as a child.

  9. #49
    Senior Member Mal12345's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Just a little reminder that Einstein, notorious INTP, had a low tested IQ as a child.
    Was Einstein's IQ tested as a child? What was his score?

    I read one of his biographies years ago. Einstein was a poor student. He spent most of his time staring out the classroom window.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    They aren't unusual arguments at all among people who follow Jungian cognitive function theory and Jungian analysts like Beebe or Lenore Thomson.

    They just address the functional basis for the stereotypes that Keirsey and Myers-Briggs later collectively perpetuated in an obvious attempt to over-simplify personality theory.

    Don't get me wrong - I think Keirsey and Myers-Briggs did add something to the sphere of personality theory knowledge, but typing people based upon outdated stereotypes of culturally normative behaviors isn't really helping anyone reach real self-understanding. Many SJs are offended at the way they're portrayed in these silly on-line descriptions.
    That however is a subjective response. Perhaps this is just the way the SJs typically respond to these descriptions.

    This reminds me of something I read in "The Art of Thinking" (Harrison/Bramson). Some big guy in the audience at one of their lectures took their InQ test, scored Realist, and declared that he was nothing like the Realist description. The authors noted that this is a typical Realist response.

    The Realist InQ type corresponds very well with the SJ.


    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    I was even offended when I read Keirsey as someone who feels like a cross between how he portrays NFs and SPs. He left no room in the middle for someone who isn't a fucking social worker or who doesn't want to work in human resources, but also values things like reading and verbal intelligence.
    I'm not a big fan of Keirsey.
    "Everyone has a plan till they get punched in the mouth." Mike Tyson
    “Culture?” says Paul McCartney. “This isn't culture. It's just a good laugh.”

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