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  1. #51
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Yes, and we should embrace our drama as a strength. Drama makes performers, story tellers, entertainers of all kinds. Drama digs down to the root of feeling in human experiences and heightens it in order to both educate and entertain.

    I totally relate to Beebe's model of Auxillary Fi teaching others through personal experience, good lord, don't I ever.

    It's just that both ENFPs and ESFPs do this. :marionette:

    According to Keirsey the need to entertain is more ESFP and the need to "develop others" is more ENFP.

    I feel kind of strangulated by Keirsey for that reason. I'm just not as NF as he makes his NFs out to be...they're so freaking into working in human resources and "people are innately good" and all that jazz. I do not belong in human resources, nor do I belong in counseling, and I have not believed that people were "innately good" for many years. I don't necessarily believe they are "innately bad" either. I believe they are innately human.

    He makes the four temperaments too extreme.
    I really don't think that exfp's are all that different at the end of the day. It doesn't make sense that there would be this imaginary "line" that you cross that makes our behaviors appear quite the same but our thoughts to be completely different. It's easy to find examples that tell you otherwise, but even easier to find people who are just whatever they are, untypable, There's supposed N and there's supposed S, and there's seeing connections and being humanistic and sensitive, and there's being entertaining and fun and present-moment oriented, and I don't see why it would be impossible for all of these traits to exist in the same human. We see it all the time. We can slice it any way we want to make it look nicely labeled, like we've got people all figured out, but at the end of the day, we're just not there yet.

    (oh God, I'm starting to feel like one of those talking heads again. "Yes, You've hit the nail on the head. I also have to elaborate here, Marm that- blahblabhblahblahblahblahblah.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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    by sns.

  2. #52
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    According to Keirsey the need to entertain is more ESFP and the need to "develop others" is more ENFP.

    I feel kind of strangulated by Keirsey for that reason. I'm just not as NF as he makes his NFs out to be...they're so freaking into working in human resources and "people are innately good" and all that jazz. I do not belong in human resources, nor do I belong in counseling, and I have not believed that people were "innately good" for many years. I don't necessarily believe they are "innately bad" either. I believe they are innately human.

    He makes the four temperaments too extreme.
    Yeah, Keirsey probably pushed those "ideal careers/beliefs" concepts too far. That's the point. Those are hypothetical ideals. In real life, things may come out different.

    It would probably be better for you then to look at other NF profiles not by Keirsey. You know you're an F; the deciding factor would be S or N, of course. It's better to go by that than to rely on Keirsey's ideal models. Like in the MBTI manual, it mentions enthusiasm, insight and warmth, without going into those narrow details
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  3. #53
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Yeah, Keirsey probably pushed those "ideal careers/beliefs" concepts too far. That's the point. Those are hypothetical ideals. In real life, things may come out different.

    It would probably be better for you then to look at other NF profiles not by Keirsey. You know you're an F; the deciding factor would be S or N, of course. It's better to go by that than to rely on Keirsey's ideal models. Like in the MBTI manual, it mentions enthusiasm, insight and warmth, without going into those narrow details
    Or we can just call them all "sanguine"
    This is one system that doesn't seem to be completely weird to try to apply.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  4. #54
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    NF isn't Sanguine. SP, or ESF/ENP is.
    But yes, I like expressing types as blends of the four or five temperaments, and specifying the two areas (Inclusion/Control) explains in which way you're one temperament or another.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
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  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    oh and @ Jim ...I lied.

    I also have been thinking of taking a break from the forum for a while, it wasn't just because of what you said. I probably will here soon.
    This one has brain frazzle and requires at least 2 weeks of intense kittening and soup.

  6. #56
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    NF isn't Sanguine. SP, or ESF/ENP is.
    But yes, I like expressing types as blends of the four or five temperaments, and specifying the two areas (Inclusion/Control) explains in which way you're one temperament or another.
    Well, yea. Exactly. ( I was thinking of ExFP's, not NF's in general.)

    As a side note, I picture a strong INFJ to be a pure mel. I haven't studied these connections though. Do you agree?
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  7. #57
    Anew Leaf
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Well, yea. Exactly. ( I was thinking of ExFP's, not NF's in general.)

    As a side note, I picture a strong INFJ to be a pure mel. I haven't studied these connections though. Do you agree?
    The difference between the two is that an ENFP will encourage me to be my true self, whereas the ESFP will encourage me to have some cake. (Cake is delicious!)

    So SnS, I have YOU to THANK for my new transformation. I feel so liberated and at peace. Thank you.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    (oh God, I'm starting to feel like one of those talking heads again. "Yes, You've hit the nail on the head. I also have to elaborate here, Marm that- blahblabhblahblahblahblahblah.)
    We're on an episode of The View. Aren't you excited? We get to meet Whoopi Goldburg.

    And that other annoying lady.

  9. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    The difference between the two is that an ENFP will encourage me to be my true self, whereas the ESFP will encourage me to have some cake. (Cake is delicious!)

    So SnS, I have YOU to THANK for my new transformation. I feel so liberated and at peace. Thank you.
    What about someone who encourages you to eat cake while telling you to be yourself?

  10. #60
    Post-Humorously stalemate's Avatar
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    I never learned what melancholy or sanguine or any of that stuff means... I just pick which one I am based on what kind of food the word reminds me of and whether or not I'm in the mood to eat it when I'm trying to follow the discussion.

    Right now I could go for some cantaloupe...

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