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  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    Yeah; I have to find some, in this context (particularly between SP and NF). I'll check Keirsey's and Berens' books, but they might not specifically compare the temperaments like that.

    Again, it will involve the SP being quicker to take action, and the NF being a bit slower. Right now, from Berens' book on the temperaments, "affiliative" behavior includes "seeking agreement" and "checking in with norms and values", while pragmatic is "seeking outcomes", and "choosing actions to meet goals". Comfort zone for the Affiliative is having defined roles, while for pragmatic, it is "being free to engage in expedient actions regardless of roles"
    I wanted specific examples maybe from IRL because I actually own Keirsey's book, and I found to my suprise that related almost equally to NF and SP. When I took the four dichotomy test my result was ENFP, but when I took the "temperament screening" test in the back of the book I only had a one point difference between NF and SP, while SJ and NT were way on down, like half of those two.

    In short, I'm either an extremely verbal SP, or a very pragmatic NF.

  2. #32
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    I don't have any IRL examples, because I don't know enough of either SP or NF (almost everyone around me is SJ, with a handful of NT's. There are two ESFP Sanguine/Sanguine teenage girls, but I'm not really around them enough. Always was curious about what exactly Sanguine in Control was like).

    I recall that you identified with this http://www.pastoral-counseling-cente...ne-control.htm, and that would explain why you would seem between NF and SP. That temperament has moderate "expressed Control", which in the correlation would place it between pragmatic and cooperative. It's slightly on the Sanguine (expressive, pragmatic) side, but still close to Supine (more reserved).
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

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  3. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    I don't have any IRL examples, because I don't know enough of either SP or NF
    So you go by pure theory? I'm sorry but I don't really trust that.

    (almost everyone around me is SJ, with a handful of NT's. There are two ESFP Sanguine/Sanguine teenage girls, but I'm not really around them enough. Always was curious about what exactly Sanguine in Control was like).

    I recall that you identified with this http://www.pastoral-counseling-cente...ne-control.htm, and that would explain why you would seem between NF and SP. That temperament has moderate "expressed Control", which in the correlation would place it between pragmatic and cooperative. It's slightly on the Sanguine (expressive, pragmatic) side, but still close to Supine (more reserved).
    Actually I'm more between the Phlegmatic Sanguine and Sanguine, because I'm not quite that low energy always. I'm much more driven and fiercely independent sometimes than that. I think I was going through a period of burn-out from school/depression when I picked that, though I can see sides of myself in both.

    Like depression and mania.

  4. #34
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    I am a bit more reserved though, so Phleg-Sang probably is right.

    I just have gone through these intense phases of NO, NO... ME? I CAN DO IT ALL THANK YOU. At one point in school I was make straight As, working part-time, and also going to various extracurricular events related to school related to my classes, helping out with various things here and there.

    I've just had quite about enough of that shit, I basically philosophically rejected that way of life.

    So I guess Phleg-Sang. I'm just thinking though of these phases of my life where I was much more pushy, involved, "NO I DON'T NEED ANY HELP," and that kind of thing...mainly when I was younger, though.

    I've done various things REPEATEDLY to prove my strength and independence to myself though. Even after being burn-out from school, my first impulse was to fly across the country with very little money (again), live in youth hostels, and start my life over again. I also took up jogging in the months following.

    Now I feel like I've been on a "down swing" again, of being more like the Phleg-Sang of just doing what I have to do to get through the day and saying "fuck it."

    I wouldn't say that's been the tone of my life overall, though. Quite the contrary.

  5. #35
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    Have you considered if the juice is worth the squeeze to sufficiently specify the level of accuracy you require wrt. the S/N divide?

    Are you perhaps trying to account for such a range of possibilities that when considered against the system which you are considering it just creates fuzziness due to the nature of the system?

  6. #36
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    You're right. I need to take a week or so away from the forum.

    BRB.

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    You're right. I need to take a week or so away from the forum.

    BRB.
    ENFP then I guess


  8. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by InvisibleJim View Post
    ENFP then I guess

    Let me explain: It is the nature of the Ne dominant to first seek out all potential avenues of idea that are 'practical' before they can be content with their chosen sensatory outlets (Si). It is in the nature of Se dominant to first seek out and experience all potential avenues of sensation to be content before falling back on a collusive idea (Ni) when stressed or excited.

    If one side of the coin is indiscernible check the other face and therefore you will work out what it is by the process of elimination.

  9. #39
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    As the above post has been proving eerily popular: The above recommendation is about as far as is 'practical' for a certain level of 'safety' to that certain value of practical and safetiness with no additional practical or safetiness implied.

    I highly recommend the use of socionics to split apart these two types.

    Three things to bear in mind regarding socionics
    1. Ignore Alexei, Socionics functions are Jungian Archetypes; there is no real difference between 'information metabolism' and 'cognitive processing' aka. thinking through information (ding)
    2. Have a detailed look at the wikisocion descriptions for IEE (ENFP) and SEE (ESFP)
    3. Review the quadrants
    4. Review the type interrelations chart
    5. Consider that Socionics may offer such a sufficiently detailed appraisal of the behavioural consequences of cognition that there may be little point being worried about behaviour=/=cognition esque rebukes.
    6. Decide if IEE or SEE is a best fit for you; then reconsider the implications on your Jung/MBTI type

  10. #40
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    So you go by pure theory? I'm sorry but I don't really trust that.



    Actually I'm more between the Phlegmatic Sanguine and Sanguine, because I'm not quite that low energy always. I'm much more driven and fiercely independent sometimes than that. I think I was going through a period of burn-out from school/depression when I picked that, though I can see sides of myself in both.

    Like depression and mania.
    Over time talking to you, I would think of you as sanguine first.
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