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  1. #21
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by INTP View Post
    oh and you can see the difference in their eyes. Se types have sharper focus sometimes looking bit like some hawk looking at its pray. focus of Ne types on the other hand is wandering around more and pretty much only stops when they go inside their head using Fi or start using Te.
    i've had people tell me that i scare them when i drive because i seem very far away...like i'm not paying attention at all and my bf says i'm that way even just walking around like ahh you're going to run into those people! or do you not see that? haha umm...it's sad...but true..i think it's obvious to others quite often that i'm not present...or very aware of my surroundings.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  2. #22
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    i've had people tell me that i scare them when i drive because i seem very far away...like i'm not paying attention at all and my bf says i'm that way even just walking around like ahh you're going to run into those people! or do you not see that? haha umm...it's sad...but true..i think it's obvious to others quite often that i'm not present...or very aware of my surroundings.
    nothing sad about that, its pretty charming
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
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  3. #23
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    for anyone using the word "random" - Ne is not random! lol. never is. you just can't see the patterns...

    i have a good ESFP friend - our major differences that could be type-related are mostly about how we interact with time, i think. she is very spontaneous and in the moment... she hates making future plans because she likes following things as they come up. like we'll be shopping, and she'll get a text about a party, and from shopping she'll bounce to the party, from the party to someone's house, from the house to another house... and so on... she makes tons of friends this way and has some really crazy adventures. whereas i really like to have some kind of plan and premeditated endgoal (even if just "hang out with x") for my activities, instead of figuring it out as i go. she also really loves live local bands and goes to shows all the time, she enjoys the music, pretty much any kind, and likes hanging out with the crowd and getting to know people - me personally i like some select bands and/or going to see a show with a friend, but i can't imagine going about it how she does, it would make me feel very uncomfortable (that might also be an enneagram thing though, she's 7w6 to my 6w7). i've gotten frustrated at her for "ditching" me before and she's gotten frustrated at me for not being willing to just do what she does and follow the paths as they arise.

    i think her Fi is also tinged a little differently because of Se. i'm all into psychology and morality and ethics and theory and study and whatnot, and certainly i am good with people, but i also feel a little removed from them. whereas she has the gift of being able to be dropped into essentially any situation and come out of it with 6 new friends, a free drink, and an invitation to a party, which constantly baffles me. i was hanging out with her tthe other day and she just went up to some guy and started talking to him, and he gave her a ride in his new convertible. on one hand, i don't really want to ride in a stranger's convertible. on the other - sort of amazing, how she did that. she connects with everyone, no pretention, no judgment, etc.

    given, of course, i'm pretty sure she's Se to the extreme.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tofu562
    Also she has dumped beer on a guy's head before. I couldn't see an ENFP doing this except under pretty extreme circumstances, lol.
    odd point, but i'm very inclined to agree. i can totally see my ESFP friend doing this. and i'm pretty sure an ESTP friend of mine has done this. but i can totally not see me doing this.


    Quote Originally Posted by Uwace View Post
    Uh I think ENFPs being the most introverted is a fallacy, I say ENTJ! Te doesn't really see the need to socialize unless it fits the agenda, to which they use Se for that.
    probably also depends on the enneatype of the ENFP and in question... ENTJ 8w7 is probably going to be more sociable than ENFP 4w5, but ENFP 7w8 more sociable than ENTJ 3w4.

  4. #24
    Sugar Hiccup OrangeAppled's Avatar
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    I don't know if this will help, but I used the response below in a thread in the SP forum for someone who wanted to know if their ESTP friend might be ENTP.

    To elaborate a bit more....an important thing to remember is that BOTH Se & Ne types perceive possibilities, both have ideas, both make connections. That's all perceiving is - an awareness that "sees" possibilities, ideas & patterns. All the P functions do it, but of course Pe "looks outward".

    Jung describes Se-doms as often being aesthetes, making an art of everyday living (ie. eating, dressing, etc; where the "artisan" association likely comes from). I think they will also note physical dynamics & what those imply realistically, such as body language between people & how two physical elements interact & what they can create. Obviously, they prefer to focus on the possibility of these literal aspects of life, and in the case of an ESFP, will often focus on how to make those ideal (Fi).

    Ne-dom focus on intangible possibilities of the concepts of objects, such as imagining what a situation has in store for the future (in a universal & general way, not an immediate, literal way), seeing hidden potential or flaws in a scenario/object, the invisible dynamics between people, the underlying concept of something & how it relates to the concept of something else to highlight a more general idea, etc. From here they pull out new, "random" ideas, but their mind sees all the crosswires. Se-dom see the crosswires in their connections of physical/literal stuff, but they often seem less random because it's more visible to others & easier for them to follow.

    Jung negatively describes Se-dom as hedonists, pursuing pleasure & new experience, & Ne-dom as fickle, flighty idea-pursuers. Of course, the experience Se-dom pursue is an idea also, but they often won't view it this way to themselves; to them, it's just the ultimate reality, and that trumps ideas. Just as the Ne-dom's pursuit of ideas can look like pursuit of sensation, but in their mind, it's the concept that is intriguing, which is why they move on so quickly to the next idea (the experience is secondary to the idea, & mainly experienced as inspiration for a new idea). It can definitely make them look alike to a casual observer. It's their attitude that will distinguish them more clearly.

    The future vs present oriented difference is real also, but still can be confused, as Se-doms will see themselves as always thinking of the next experience, the next sensation to pursue, but it's an immediate, realistic future. The Ne-dom lives in a hypothetical future, and it's concepts of change that they pursue, which are usually not specific plans, but general ideas. The Ne-dom wants change (or realization of new ideas) for its own sake, and the Se-dom wants experience for its own sake. Fi comes into play by giving them a purpose.

    Ne is not [simply] about random connections. Random connections can even be a sign of inferior N.

    Se apprehends the literal object & its immediate, realistic possibilities. It also sees connections between these literal objects. These could be seemingly random. A blue car reminds them of the sky, which reminds them that they want to go skydiving. That is actually quite a Se line of thought.

    Ne apprehends the concept behind the object and what that concept implies for future, hypothetical possibilities (they don't need to be realistic ideas; if it can be imagined, then it's a possibility). It sees connections between the underlying concepts of objects, not their literal attributes. This is why Ne types appear absent-minded, because they are not focusing their minds on what exists around them literally at the moment, but on what exists in concept in the world in general. The mindset is still focused on external things, but it's abstract, intangible stuff
    Often a star was waiting for you to notice it. A wave rolled toward you out of the distant past, or as you walked under an open window, a violin yielded itself to your hearing. All this was mission. But could you accomplish it? (Rilke)

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofu562 View Post
    Also she has dumped beer on a guy's head before. I couldn't see an ENFP doing this except under pretty extreme circumstances, lol.
    Interesting. When I was in high school I beat some preppy rich jock over the head with my French book for calling me a bitch in class one morning after he'd knocked my things off of my desk horseplaying with a friend of his. I also knocked a guy's glasses off because he was insulting me one day at lunch. Another day this ignorant redneck guy (seriously I think he was borderline retarded he was pretty bad) who kept picking on EVERYONE within a ten mile radius bugged me one day when I had my head down on my desk sleeping when I was sick, and I reached up and hit him.

    I also kicked a couple of guys when I was a dancer, and beat another guy with my purse when he tried to snatch it.

    I'm usually more verbal, like I have arguments with people or yell at people (though not as much as when I was very young, I've curbed the yelling TREMENDOUSLY as I've aged, like it only happens in very rare extreme cases now) but yeah I've hit a couple of guys for doing things to me.

    I could see myself pouring a beer over a guy's head, yes, I could.

    In every case, though, it was entirely provoked by some douchebag who thought he could bully me, overpower me, or sexually harrass me because of being a man. I really hate how certain men think they can pick on women just because they're women and oh they won't fight back they'll just cry. NOT.

    Maybe I'm an ESFP. My mother says I don't take shit from anyone, which is entirely true. Could be an ESFP trait, I don't know.

  6. #26
    Member Tofu562's Avatar
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    lol I think it might be. In my ESFP friend's case, it was repeated unwanted advances at a party. But then again she is able to stomach a lot of bullshit from her on-and-off-again boyfriend, so I dunno.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tofu562 View Post
    lol I think it might be. In my ESFP friend's case, it was repeated unwanted advances at a party. But then again she is able to stomach a lot of bullshit from her on-and-off-again boyfriend, so I dunno.
    That's pretty much how I am. Very interesting.

    I think some people just need to be dealt with, because otherwise they'll just keep their shit up, and may even go hurt other people.

    Sometimes assholes need a good shock, and some people just don't respond to "talking it out".

    I typically see violence as a last resort, especially now that I'm an adult and no longer in my teens or very early twenties, but seriously it's sometimes the only way to get someone to back off.

    I want to become trained in some martial art. I've always liked the idea of being able to fight back, because we live in a fucked up world.

    It also may be the life I've lived. It's easy to say "no I'd never do that" if you've primarily been sheltered from the rednecks and rapists of the world.

  8. #28
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marmie Dearest View Post
    Interesting. When I was in high school I beat some preppy rich jock over the head with my French book for calling me a bitch in class one morning after he'd knocked my things off of my desk horseplaying with a friend of his. I also knocked a guy's glasses off because he was insulting me one day at lunch. Another day this ignorant redneck guy (seriously I think he was borderline retarded he was pretty bad) who kept picking on EVERYONE within a ten mile radius bugged me one day when I had my head down on my desk sleeping when I was sick, and I reached up and hit him.

    I also kicked a couple of guys when I was a dancer, and beat another guy with my purse when he tried to snatch it.

    I'm usually more verbal, like I have arguments with people or yell at people (though not as much as when I was very young, I've curbed the yelling TREMENDOUSLY as I've aged, like it only happens in very rare extreme cases now) but yeah I've hit a couple of guys for doing things to me.

    I could see myself pouring a beer over a guy's head, yes, I could.

    In every case, though, it was entirely provoked by some douchebag who thought he could bully me, overpower me, or sexually harrass me because of being a man. I really hate how certain men think they can pick on women just because they're women and oh they won't fight back they'll just cry. NOT.

    Maybe I'm an ESFP. My mother says I don't take shit from anyone, which is entirely true. Could be an ESFP trait, I don't know.
    You're a Sanguine (ENP), like an ESFP (for whom it's ESF and SP), and Sanguines have hot tempers and quick, often rash/loud reactions. What distinguishes them from the Choleric who we usually associate those behaviors with is that they don't usually stay that way, and otherwise want to be more friendly.

    So that behavior you describe will be similar in both types. The difference, again, will be in cooperative/pragmatic behavior. I could use some examples of pragmatism for the SP; but to suffice for now, the ESFP will be quicker to act in certain [other] ways that the NF will be slower. The first place we can start is with physical types of activity, given the Se/Ne difference.
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  9. #29
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    I think it would be cool if you gave some examples of pragmatism/cooperative.

  10. #30
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    Yeah; I have to find some, in this context (particularly between SP and NF). I'll check Keirsey's and Berens' books, but they might not specifically compare the temperaments like that.

    Again, it will involve the SP being quicker to take action, and the NF being a bit slower. Right now, from Berens' book on the temperaments, "affiliative" behavior includes "seeking agreement" and "checking in with norms and values", while pragmatic is "seeking outcomes", and "choosing actions to meet goals". Comfort zone for the Affiliative is having defined roles, while for pragmatic, it is "being free to engage in expedient actions regardless of roles"
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