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  1. #61
    RETIRED CzeCze's Avatar
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    Random thing about Ne + Ti or Fi - I looooove puzzles and brain teasers. I was and am a big time nerd >.< I was a part of the "brain bowl" teams in highschool (I remember being the only girl on the team once, even though in the school I went to academic excellence and being good at advanced math were considered good things for everyone including girls and many girls took AP sciences and math) and you know those quiz teams that compete against schools? Oh yeah, I was like 'SIGN ME UP!' I have a membership to that brain training website 'Lumosity' now even though I don't use it often (that's the "P") part. (Yes, I was clearly hugely popular in school, too)

    I'm a global learner and sometimes I stay up because I have to keep finding information - my INFJ friend told me it's been proven that new information can tingle your brain like a drug. So I'll start on a Wikipedia subject and keep lily-padding and reading different subjects. I know LOL 'information porn'.

    When I learn how to do things, I usually don't put too much thought into it, I take mental notes of some key things but mostly I try to mimic in whole my teacher. Same with languages. I get the 'gist' of the language, not the fine mechanics of it, so I can pick up survival skills for travelling pretty well, but my 'J' friends will make fun of my misuse of grammar and gendering nouns (they think they're SOOOOO cool). However, I feel I will be more comfortable and conversationally fluent before someone more hung up on the finer points. :P Same with dance classes, they move too fast to pick up every move if you are a beginner, but I notice the general flow of the movements and I'll use that and timing instead of concentrating on executing each move perfectly (honestly with how quickly some 'beginner' classes move, you really can't unless you are *not* a beginner dancer).

    I feel like physically I'm a pretty good mimic, physical limitations etc. not withstanding, purely because of the Ne dominance. I think being Ne dom means you don't think too much about stuff before you do it and you aren't even very aware of all the parts, but you have a 'sense' of things before you start. That's why when I start something with 'a lot of moving parts' or things that are supposed to be difficult, I try to devour as much information as I can about it, but eventually I just get comfortable having a 'sense' of it then I do it. Or keep doing something until all the blanks in my head are filled.

    If that makes sense. This might be how everyone learns, who knows :P.

    Also, -

    I love focusing on 1 puzzle or question at time, but with brain teasers I often think a little then start button mashing because thinking about the answer too much can suck the fun out of it. Many times, unless it's for a memory question, I'll just let my intuition guide me. I can't tell you beforehand how to solve it, but it gets figured out eventually.
    “If you want to tell people the truth, make them laugh, otherwise they'll kill you.” ― Oscar Wilde

    "I'm outtie 5000" ― Romulux

    Johari/Nohari

  2. #62
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Sorry to interrupt, but I had to address these interesting thoughts.

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    so the best i've got so far is that the similarity finder floods the space of the object with an influx of alternate informational domains. these supply other contexts. you call the contexts Si, and surely they are informed by semantic representations, but in my interactions and discussions with entps (enps more broadly, too, i'd think), it has seemed to me that the decision structures (Ji) supply the contexts. pragmatics instead of semantics. stories. little bits of simulated/tested extensionality gathered from semantic tags but also by other ways of recalling and reconstructing experience episodically (merleau-ponty's pre-objective?).
    It's much easier to think about it this way - Ne perceives something. It recognizes this something as a slice of a greater picture, or a piece of a greater puzzle. The brain can't handle this something without having a holistic understanding of it, however. So, Ne goes ahead and fills in the gaps with whatever the mind can come up with at the time. The introverted judging function serves as the internal check on the model that Ne creates, Ti judging whether that model is precise and internally consistent, and Fi judging whether the model rings true or rings hollow. As you note, this is the "context" that hems in any conclusions based on the model.

    your comment about parameters narrowing rather than a specific story line anchoring you to a single context rings so true for me. but how the fuck do you do this? how do you experience purpose (when Je is so purposeful in its singular, goal-oriented kind of way)?
    Well, I'd say I don't experience purpose in this sort of way. However, Ti's drive for accuracy, consistency and completeness does have an emotional component to it for me. So, the purpose comes because I am emotionally invested in figuring something out.

    what governs parameters in exploration, how does one account for interest or relevancy?
    That's what introverted judgment does. It holds interest until satisfied, and then loses it. That's why we can be a bit flighty.

    you still choose the decisions you want to combine into a larger story as you jump from alligator to alligator? there is a kind of subconscious interest based on what pictures can come into focus? like it's kind of happening, you can feel it or not, but when it does come into focus, then you can analyze it more completely and figure out how to get there? inkling, inkling, inkling, completion. analysis. repeat.
    There is no choice involved. In the absence of contradictory evidence, the story that arises, seemingly from the ether, represents something that fundamentally exists within the universe. There's no "figuring out how to get there," because at that point, I've already made it. i.e. "I've figured it out! I know it works. (Why?) Because it has to work. (How do you know that?) Because there's no way it can't work."

    like a path of connection lights up and lingers for a moment. but how long do they stay open and active? what becomes the larger whole?
    Nothing becomes the larger whole. The larger whole is the universe, as it exists. I don't create connections, I hypothesize about them, test them, and recognize them.

    does each newly synthesized idea not make the creation of a whole more anchored to what has come before it?
    No, because the whole is the universe, and its very existence is what anchors it to everything else.

    the motivation is whether it is worth it to keep going, keep exploring, or turn the page and start anew? (and ultimately, the quality of the story is what drives your exploration, tho for that quality to be measured and experienced by you fully you need to give it and get it back with interest, to see it as reflected back to you by others? via Fe?)
    The motivation is the mystery, seeing what comes next, solving the puzzle, and taking further steps toward "getting it." For me, I just like sharing my excitement and joy in this with other people.

    so not an experience of time but of space. events. everything is connected because infinite stories connect all possibilities.
    Everything is connected because it is part of the same universe. Ti attempts to determine exactly what those rules of interconnection are.

    and what, then, is information to you? everything is based on difference as a way of measuring change, but change is rooted in what? (when there is no IS and there is/is not an essence? pure sketch, always a process of creation, addition?)
    Information is another piece of the puzzle, another bit of evidence that clarifies the mystery. Change is just something that things do. Change itself is essential. Without change, the distinction between existence and nonexistence becomes meaningless.

    what does could be mean?
    One potential model.

    how do those alternative contexts affect what something is or could be?
    They affect our interaction with things. However, our interaction with things is just one subjective model. Ultimately, objective essence is unknowable because of things such as the observer effect.

    just patterns that explode outward with their particular character and shape and symbol? to transpose endlessly... but how do they change then?
    You just know, much like you just know if a piece of music is good, without any outside criteria. They change simply because that's what things do.

    like, you know the Ni joke, that tranpose to a new key, organizing principle + content replacement, jazz chord substitution, endlessly layered embedding of contexts into an ongoing recursive structure, seeing what's at the bottom of the well, well, we create the stretchiness between expectation and what is (which is the grounds of our symbols when grasped in as many of their possible contexts ordered by significance to prevent gravitational distortion), but with you it becomes that context or inhabits its possibilities but is not attached to the original in the same way??????? like, it just is this AND this AND this, and so all of those potentialities can be used in the same story, shifting definitions to skip steps and reach further into unknown realms?
    More like it might be one thing, and if so, that would imply this; but, it might also be another thing, and if so, it would imply that; but, it very well could be another thing altogether, and that would imply these; but, it could be nothing whatsoever, and then it's back to the drawing board. All of this continues until new information rules out the various possibilities.

    The idea of an original is perhaps one where there may be a fundamental distinction. There is no such thing as an original. Ultimately, it represents nothing more than an abstract relationship between essences the nature of which are far beyond our own comprehension. Like, the most mind-blowing thing to me is that I have no fucking clue what my own existence actually is. Because of this, models that provide a means of understanding all have equal significance, and equal insignificance, because they absolutely cannot come anywhere near accurately describing, explaining, and making predictions about existence itself.

    There is no Se "the image is the essence." All information does is to provide clues as to what we actually are, and what that means, and nothing more in isolation.

    "Unknown realms" is a bit of a mischaracterization. What I've come to realize is that at their core, all realms are equally unknown to me. Therefore, I ask myself what this new piece of information tells me about the universe that I didn't realize or understand before.

    (and what is the essence that is carried through from beginning to end? is that something that must be analyzed via Ti to test the strength of each connection, to go back and build in the story to fill the gaps in the simplified story, to scale down from wider space to more narrowed parameter, driven by inquiry to test what can actually extend to... what, according to your best powers?)
    I don't "test connections." I basically ask how this new piece of information fits together with everything else I know, and whether the means I am using to fit it together follows from how other things in the universe fit together. There is no distinction between wider space and narrower parameter, because they both represent aspects of the universal whole.

    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
    ^^ I do this too! When I read, my mind eats whole sentences at once, often starting in the middle, then working towards keywords to resynthesize meaning, rather than read what was actually written.
    I actually see words as pictures. I can understand writing without sounding out the words in my head (though I usually do that, but only to personalize the words). I actually derive a lot of meaning in sentences from the visual structure of the sentence, though I can get in some trouble with comprehension when I'm relying on Ne a little too much to fill in meaning rather than actually read the words.

    Ne is just seeing the obvious connections and patterns, LOL. Haha, I think they are obvious, but it is so very strange when other people cant see them. They are so blatant sometimes. When in doubt I find the entp, and cross check, but sometimes it is like we are sitting in a room and ghosts are floating by but other people just dont see them.
    Another interesting way of looking at it is that those patterns and connections are our crutch, so to speak. Without those connections, our brains can't even comprehend the most basic bits of sensory info. It may seem like a magic trick at times, but really, it could just as easily be seen as compensation.

    Ne seeks information and never wants to stop, as the goal is to complete the map. Once the map is complete, I will be connected to the world, the world with I, and everything will become one and be whole. It sounds self centric, but it is almost totally the opposite-there would be nothing more beautiful than to lose self identity and become part of everything, simply a grain of sand in the wind-but to do that the connections must be completed.
    It's funny, I used to think that I wanted to complete the map. However, it's just as you say - the desire was rooted in a yearning for integration with the universe, which I often felt very isolated from. Now, I've come to realize that I just have to accept that the universe is far too big and complex for me to know even a miniscule fraction of what there is to know. Furthermore, the obsession with completing the map prevented me from enjoying the experience of life and fully embracing it. It prevented me from knowing what it meant to love things.

  3. #63
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by state View Post
    so the best i've got so far is that the similarity finder floods the space of the object with an influx of alternate informational domains. these supply other contexts. you call the contexts Si, and surely they are informed by semantic representations, but in my interactions and discussions with entps (enps more broadly, too, i'd think), it has seemed to me that the decision structures (Ji) supply the contexts. pragmatics instead of semantics. stories. little bits of simulated/tested extensionality gathered from semantic tags but also by other ways of recalling and reconstructing experience episodically (merleau-ponty's pre-objective?).

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    The introverted judging function serves as the internal check on the model that Ne creates, Ti judging whether that model is precise and internally consistent, and Fi judging whether the model rings true or rings hollow. As you note, this is the "context" that hems in any conclusions based on the model.
    Hmmm, I think I cross check the Ne models in two ways. One is very huerestic-the Fi groping-what does this “feel” like, Does it generate a reasonable response in myself. It isn’t so emotive as much kinesthetic, viseceral. The other way is that I “shake” the Ne lattice and evaluate for symmetry and number/firmness of previous connections. When I am sitting on a new idea, by shaking this lattice it generates an internal kinesthetic response of “likely right” or “fun but totally out there” based on the kinesthetic feeling of solidity.

    EDIT-in retrospect, this could all be examples of Fi being used to "feel". Fi is not simply a list of values, but an analytical device that weighs and measures in a heurestic way against what is already known.

    Quote Originally Posted by state View Post
    your comment about parameters narrowing rather than a specific story line anchoring you to a single context rings so true for me. but how the fuck do you do this? how do you experience purpose (when Je is so purposeful in its singular, goal-oriented kind of way)?
    Typically the end result has a emotional reward-it helps people, thus I feel relief/happiness at their not being in pain anymore, since I obligatorily reflect their pain. Without that purpose, I have no investment in the ideas uncovered and just keep moving.

    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    what governs parameters in exploration, how does one account for interest or relevancy?
    I’d say the aux function generates an area of interest-for Fi, this seems to be an area which initially generates a large reciprocal response in my own internal emotive reflection of the world -ie people. Any other topic which I maintain a keen self interest in, will also be explored in great breadth. Within those landscapes, things that have can be connected more strongly will be weighted and explored first. For instance a very recent are of interest for me is diabetes, due to illness in my family, and I am engulfing everything I can find on the topic to meet the needs of the other person.

    Quote Originally Posted by state View Post
    you still choose the decisions you want to combine into a larger story as you jump from alligator to alligator? there is a kind of subconscious interest based on what pictures can come into focus? like it's kind of happening, you can feel it or not, but when it does come into focus, then you can analyze it more completely and figure out how to get there? inkling, inkling, inkling, completion. analysis. repeat.
    ^^This sounds very Ni.  As onemoretime said, Ne finds things that were already there, just waiting for someone to quite literally uncover them.

  4. #64
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by state View Post
    like a path of connection lights up and lingers for a moment. but how long do they stay open and active? what becomes the larger whole?
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Nothing becomes the larger whole. The larger whole is the universe, as it exists. I don't create connections, I hypothesize about them, test them, and recognize them.
    The universe is already present in it’s totality with rules that are consistent across it’s entire whole. I don’t know what they are, but I know they are consistent. (LOL at my baby Si) I don’t need to find a larger whole as I already am exploring the larger whole.
    Quote Originally Posted by state View Post
    does each newly synthesized idea not make the creation of a whole more anchored to what has come before it?
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    No, because the whole is the universe, and its very existence is what anchors it to everything else.
    Ni vs Si 
    Quote Originally Posted by state View Post
    the motivation is whether it is worth it to keep going, keep exploring, or turn the page and start anew? (and ultimately, the quality of the story is what drives your exploration, tho for that quality to be measured and experienced by you fully you need to give it and get it back with interest, to see it as reflected back to you by others? via Fe?)
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    The motivation is the mystery, seeing what comes next, solving the puzzle, and taking further steps toward "getting it." For me, I just like sharing my excitement and joy in this with other people.
    Yes to the mystery, yet for me the reward is providing answers and solutions to other people that help them-Te to the aid of Fi.
    Quote Originally Posted by state View Post
    and what, then, is information to you? everything is based on difference as a way of measuring change, but change is rooted in what? (when there is no IS and there is/is not an essence? pure sketch, always a process of creation, addition?)
    what do you mean by everything being based on difference as a way of measuring change?
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    how do those alternative contexts affect what something is or could be?
    They affect our interaction with things. However, our interaction with things is just one subjective model. Ultimately, objective essence is unknowable because of things such as the observer effect.
    ^^This is very good. My map is based upon my subjective Fi biases and thus will never be an accurate representation of reality. Always very important to remember.
    Quote Originally Posted by state View Post
    just patterns that explode outward with their particular character and shape and symbol? to transpose endlessly... but how do they change then?
    The joy isn’t in the patterns changing, but in them becoming more densely connected.

  5. #65
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Another interesting way of looking at it is that those patterns and connections are our crutch, so to speak. Without those connections, our brains can't even comprehend the most basic bits of sensory info. It may seem like a magic trick at times, but really, it could just as easily be seen as compensation.
     I often do wonder ( in a purely whimsical fashion) if we are the byproducts of an evolutionary glitch. “looks at forrest, runs into tree* My apologies if my original quote sounded like it was being superior. It was actually me rolling around and playing in my dominant function, not something I get to do often, thus was in fun. I am oblivious to very simple Se input, and I think as a community, typology seriously misunderstands how complex Se really is as a cognitive function.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    It's funny, I used to think that I wanted to complete the map. However, it's just as you say - the desire was rooted in a yearning for integration with the universe, which I often felt very isolated from. Now, I've come to realize that I just have to accept that the universe is far too big and complex for me to know even a miniscule fraction of what there is to know.
    As always I wear your parallel. Rather than “to know even a miniscule fraction of what there is to know” it is “to love even a miniscule fraction of what there is to love”. Underdeveloped Fi actually tries to encompass too much of the outerworld and is far too open to trying to love everything via internal self reflection. It appears harsh on the surface as a self protective mechanism to protect the extreme fragility of the ego/world reflection underneath. Growth of Fi involves recognizing that not everyone/everything can be allowed to penetrate the internal core and that limits must be set and some must be excluded. To do so, one must “judge” others, and accept that some must be excluded, not from interactions or kind treatment, but from that internal self reflection-ie, I don’t have to carry their emotional burdens as my own. As this happens, the world Fi reflects begins to grant more and more resolution to the ones left remaining and more and more respect for one’s self. As confidence is gained in that more well resolved internal world, it can be shared more openly.
    Quote Originally Posted by onemoretime View Post
    Furthermore, the obsession with completing the map prevented me from enjoying the experience of life and fully embracing it. It prevented me from knowing what it meant to love things.
    I cant so much parallel this as I would say it was a natural progression from NeTi to NeTiFe for yourself. For myself, the parallel would be Te-ie utility, usefulness, a role to play of value. I already limited exploration towards the goal of Te utility quite well. Perhaps what I have learned is that by limiting my own exploration, by learning to exclude and limit this search for universal love and acceptance, it allows me to appreciate more fully what is within my own scope to care for, and then use my talents to be more productive towards objectives that provide for them.


    (Sorry for the mutliple posts-I went into word as there were very interesting points contained within and a couple of posts seemed easier than a very long single post)

  6. #66
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orobas View Post
     I often do wonder ( in a purely whimsical fashion) if we are the byproducts of an evolutionary glitch. “looks at forrest, runs into tree* My apologies if my original quote sounded like it was being superior. It was actually me rolling around and playing in my dominant function, not something I get to do often, thus was in fun. I am oblivious to very simple Se input, and I think as a community, typology seriously misunderstands how complex Se really is as a cognitive function.
    I wonder this myself about Ne at times. (The evolutionary glitch.) Seems like a self fulfillment function to me. The biggest problem I have with Ne, (or Se, or possibly both of them working in tandem), is the seeming laziness that results. It's just laying around thinking, or simply being interested in things in general. (However this manifests.) There's not much forward motion involved. (I guess information collection is not really supposed to allow for forward motion). I'm constantly simultaneously stuck in the moment, and sometimes stuck in my head. A moment in my world translates to an hour in the real world.

    Yankee Candle comes to mind. I can sit there for a half an hour smelling every scent and looking at every item. Sometimes the item may not even apply to my decor. But then I'll start thinking, "well if I had a beach house sometime then this would look cute with this, and this scent would go well in this room, and this scent great at a dinner party- oh and look this is like a lantern! Camping! Camping with a yankee candle! Go figure. Sitting by the camp fire, roasting marshmellows, playing cards with my friends, and actually smelling a camp fire candle at the same time! This candle holder would look great in my bathroom... or in that beach house that I'm going to buy. I need to smell that beachouse candle again. Mmm.. So amazing. This candle would be a good gift for so and so." (Simultaneously.) "NOW where will the beachouse be? I'm going to have to design a cool house on the Sims game"

    (Realizes that 20 minutes has gone by and I've only been looking at the window display.) Useless!!!!!

    Edit: Also, I feel that when I interact with other people with this (these?) dominant functions, it often results in really long, in depth conversations about seemingly minor things. (Orange juice brands or hair cuts or something.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  7. #67
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    ^^^ it is quite embarrassing isn't it.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  8. #68
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    it's ridiculous as a dom function...i don't know how it is for others but it's like an addict walking around for a fix...new information...new puzzles...what can i do with this...what can i change that into....i wonder if this is possible...absorbing constantly...feeding the blender...churn it mix it...more more more....still hungry...need to create...need to change or fix or solve...plan this...plan that...wonder this wonder that...try this try that...spongey lil alien people on the prowl for information to feed our brain haha
    exactly!

    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    your comment about parameters narrowing rather than a specific story line anchoring you to a single context rings so true for me. but how the fuck do you do this? how do you experience purpose (when Je is so purposeful in its singular, goal-oriented kind of way)? what governs parameters in exploration, how does one account for interest or relevancy? you still choose the decisions you want to combine into a larger story as you jump from alligator to alligator? there is a kind of subconscious interest based on what pictures can come into focus? like it's kind of happening, you can feel it or not, but when it does come into focus, then you can analyze it more completely and figure out how to get there? inkling, inkling, inkling, completion. analysis. repeat. like a path of connection lights up and lingers for a moment. but how long do they stay open and active? what becomes the larger whole? does each newly synthesized idea not make the creation of a whole more anchored to what has come before it? the motivation is whether it is worth it to keep going, keep exploring, or turn the page and start anew? (and ultimately, the quality of the story is what drives your exploration, tho for that quality to be measured and experienced by you fully you need to give it and get it back with interest, to see it as reflected back to you by others? via Fe?)

    so not an experience of time but of space. events. everything is connected because infinite stories connect all possibilities. and what, then, is information to you? everything is based on difference as a way of measuring change, but change is rooted in what? (when there is no IS and there is/is not an essence? pure sketch, always a process of creation, addition?) what does could be mean? how do those alternative contexts affect what something is or could be? just patterns that explode outward with their particular character and shape and symbol? to transpose endlessly... but how do they change then? like, you know the Ni joke, that tranpose to a new key, organizing principle + content replacement, jazz chord substitution, endlessly layered embedding of contexts into an ongoing recursive structure, seeing what's at the bottom of the well, well, we create the stretchiness between expectation and what is (which is the grounds of our symbols when grasped in as many of their possible contexts ordered by significance to prevent gravitational distortion), but with you it becomes that context or inhabits its possibilities but is not attached to the original in the same way??????? like, it just is this AND this AND this, and so all of those potentialities can be used in the same story, shifting definitions to skip steps and reach further into unknown realms? (and what is the essence that is carried through from beginning to end? is that something that must be analyzed via Ti to test the strength of each connection, to go back and build in the story to fill the gaps in the simplified story, to scale down from wider space to more narrowed parameter, driven by inquiry to test what can actually extend to... what, according to your best powers?)
    i would like to help answer your questions, but i am so confused by what you are asking. i will try from my point of view as a Ne dom. qre:us may see things differently.

    i think there is a wonder and curiosity inherent to Ne that always drives us to new information. we are mystery seekers by nature. we want to overturn every stone, peek behind every waterfall, climb every tree. every single thing is so different and interesting and we want to experience them all. there is nothing needed to govern interest because everything is inherently interesting. it is only pared by what is most relevant - Fi and Te help me there; i imagine Ti and Fe help ENTPs.

    the larger story is preexistant, so there is no need to build. my story already exists; i just have not fulfilled it yet. it is like the man looking down from the top of a skyscraper at a parade, compared to the man on the street. the skyscraper man can see the whole parade, while the man on the street can only see a small bit. i am on the street, but that does not mean the whole parade does not exist, nor does it mean that what will happen is completely random. so each new connection is just like revealing another piece of the puzzle, another float in the parade. i come to it with the assumption that there is a whole, and the motivation is to discover that whole and to rejoice in being a part of it. if i can discover everything, then i will understand everything, and i will become essentially omnipotent (terrifying thought, really, an omnipotent Ne dom). but more importantly, i will be able to become everything i am. that is the ultimate draw.

    change does not need roots... it is the nature of change to be unrooted. change just is, static, a paradox. there is an "is" and change is that is. the pure sketch and the final product are one in the same. there is no real transposition because there are no real fixed states. we call something A# and differentiate it from A but really it is a long and sliding scale and the differences between A# and A are at some level completely insignificant, like reducing a geometric line into points, but actually points do not exist in 1-D space at all, even though a line is composed of points. all is paradox. the possibilities and the original are one in the same; there is no difference.

    it just is this AND this AND this, and so all of those potentialities can be used in the same story, shifting definitions to skip steps and reach further into unknown realms?
    yes.

    and what is the essence that is carried through from beginning to end? is that something that must be analyzed via Ti to test the strength of each connection, to go back and build in the story to fill the gaps in the simplified story, to scale down from wider space to more narrowed parameter, driven by inquiry to test what can actually extend to... what, according to your best powers?
    all is reality, if that answers your question. all is one, one is all, and it is up to each individual to discover it. the joy is in the discovery.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I wonder this myself about Ne at times. (The evolutionary glitch.) Seems like a self fulfillment function to me. The biggest problem I have with Ne, (or Se, or possibly both of them working in tandem), is the seeming laziness that results. It's just laying around thinking, or simply being interested in things in general. (However this manifests.) There's not much forward motion involved. (I guess information collection is not really supposed to allow for forward motion). I'm constantly simultaneously stuck in the moment, and sometimes stuck in my head. A moment in my world translates to an hour in the real world.

    Yankee Candle comes to mind. I can sit there for a half an hour smelling every scent and looking at every item. Sometimes the item may not even apply to my decor. But then I'll start thinking, "well if I had a beach house sometime then this would look cute with this, and this scent would go well in this room, and this scent great at a dinner party- oh and look this is like a lantern! Camping! Camping with a yankee candle! Go figure. Sitting by the camp fire, roasting marshmellows, playing cards with my friends, and actually smelling a camp fire candle at the same time! This candle holder would look great in my bathroom... or in that beach house that I'm going to buy. I need to smell that beachouse candle again. Mmm.. So amazing. This candle would be a good gift for so and so." (Simultaneously.) "NOW where will the beachouse be? I'm going to have to design a cool house on the Sims game"

    (Realizes that 20 minutes has gone by and I've only been looking at the window display.) Useless!!!!!

    Edit: Also, I feel that when I interact with other people with this (these?) dominant functions, it often results in really long, in depth conversations about seemingly minor things. (Orange juice brands or hair cuts or something.)
    Haha, I get embarassed by my Ne sometimes... Here is a cross section of me as an INFP:

    Inner World of Emotion (Fi): Fluid, ever changing, thinking about things, wondering about things, being entranced by the world
    Surface: Calm, collected

    then suddenly Ne mode bursts out and its random thoughts scattering like fish before a shark, and ooh look! a yellow bird with bands on its tail... I wonder what species that is? Oh wait, just biked by a golf-course... I still don't understand how golf works... well maybe I could do some research on it... hey look the path is covered with lots of white cottonwood stuff... that's interesting, it's like snow in june! which reminds me that I am really looking forward to my vacation in August... iceland will be fun... hmm... I should put water in my easter island head ice cube trays when I get home... I also need to drink more water each day... maybe I need to get a new water bottle... but what color should I get? I like purple and blue...

    Now when I actually speak that out loud my inner quiet self feels a trifle horrified with a "omg! stop talking so much! why are you talking so loud?! you are going to drive everyone nuts!"

    So on the rare occasion that I encounter another NP it's some reassurance that perhaps I am not so crazy after all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saturned View Post
    Haha, I get embarassed by my Ne sometimes... Here is a cross section of me as an INFP:

    Inner World of Emotion (Fi): Fluid, ever changing, thinking about things, wondering about things, being entranced by the world
    Surface: Calm, collected

    then suddenly Ne mode bursts out and its random thoughts scattering like fish before a shark, and ooh look! a yellow bird with bands on its tail... I wonder what species that is? Oh wait, just biked by a golf-course... I still don't understand how golf works... well maybe I could do some research on it... hey look the path is covered with lots of white cottonwood stuff... that's interesting, it's like snow in june! which reminds me that I am really looking forward to my vacation in August... iceland will be fun... hmm... I should put water in my easter island head ice cube trays when I get home... I also need to drink more water each day... maybe I need to get a new water bottle... but what color should I get? I like purple and blue...

    Now when I actually speak that out loud my inner quiet self feels a trifle horrified with a "omg! stop talking so much! why are you talking so loud?! you are going to drive everyone nuts!"

    So on the rare occasion that I encounter another NP it's some reassurance that perhaps I am not so crazy after all.
    haahahahaha! Isn't that awful? Then there is the little voice that tries to tell everybody to just shut up.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

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