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  1. #51
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    it's ridiculous as a dom function...i don't know how it is for others but it's like an addict walking around for a fix...new information...new puzzles...what can i do with this...what can i change that into....i wonder if this is possible...absorbing constantly...feeding the blender...churn it mix it...more more more....still hungry...need to create...need to change or fix or solve...plan this...plan that...wonder this wonder that...try this try that...spongey lil alien people on the prowl for information to feed our brain haha
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
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  2. #52
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Sensory overload. Lots and lots of sensory overload.

    I think with Se I wouldn't be as overloaded and I would be able to discern all the elements in my environment. As a Ne dom, vibes and energies etc. hit me, it's more like having a kind of sonar than looking at things with just my eyes. If that makes sense.

    My ENFP friend was diagnosed with ADHD. I think I had it as a kid and still have it, self medicated and doing meditation or whatnot can only help so much.

    As an NE dom, the idea of being in a sensory deprivation chamber (they have some in the bay area) is extremely appealing.
    See, I kind of experience it this way, too. Except I figure that Se is prevalent because of the amount of sensory information I take in at one time. I suspect that half the time, I'm accepting more into my psyche than I even realize, absorbing things without realizing it. My ideas jumping out are suspected to evolve out of a great amount of details that have simply woven themselves together to form a conclusion in my psyche. (An Ne "hunch", perhaps?) I think sometimes I almost seem spacey/ and out of this world, and miss stuff because I'm busy processing. Though I'm usually in the moment or can think ahead about a day. I'm opportunistic but not focused too far into the future.

    Quote Originally Posted by ThatsWhatHeSaid View Post
    Continuous desire to analyze and understand.
    This sounds like Ti or Fi, (in my own understanding of them.) grouping things and regrouping, analyzing and redefining. Good/bad. . Correct/incorrect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    That would be more in the domain of a judging function, not a function used for information-gathering.
    What you said.

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    Yes, this is what it's like for me, too:



    When I'm trying to study or do something that requires a lot of focus , my imagination keeps going , so every 30 seconds I have to consciously remind myself .

    On the up-side, it can be very entertaining sometimes, I find a lot of things funny that others don't because I can see irony in a lot of things, and I love brainstorming.
    I relate to this. (As mentioned in your rep.) Just about everything can be turned into something funny. I almost started typing a story but I'm afraid it will stray me off into no man's land. If I'm in one of my really good moods, focus goes out the window. Everything is fascinating and ends up going off in all different directions. In more somber moods my mind is more one track/ task oriented/ get it done.

    My studying system to help me focus is to write/ type everything that professors say in class on the power point. If they are moving fast enough, it works alright. If they repeat something too many times/ people start asking questions, my focus checks out for the day. Patterns and generalized concepts (hopefully accurate)seem to emerge on their own without needing explanation. Later, I read and reread the notes, highlighting things that I can repeat out loud by myself without any queue. Then I only keep rereading the notes that I haven't been able to repeat on my own, (non highlighted stuff.) Until everything in the lecture is highlighted and I can move on. Concepts that are more difficult to understand sometimes require me to physically doodle out a picture as I read. This Te engagement seems to do the trick in keeping me focused. (Sounds like it could be ESFP or ENFP.)

    Quote Originally Posted by redcheerio View Post
    I'm like this sometimes, too, usually in group convos. But luckily, I can exit and re-enter most conversations multiple times without having missed anything, or if I have missed something, I can pick up as if I hadn't missed anything. I get excited when I'm actually in a conversation that I have to pay attention to the whole time.

    Usually one-on-one, I'll pay attention, because I like to be a good friend and listen.




    When I'm learning something new, I think for me it's that Ne first provides the overall framework, and then Ti confirms and adjusts it for correctness, and fills in the details. But my fav use of Ne is to think of new things that I haven't heard of before, and so therefore that sometimes no one else has thought of before.
    I do this in movies. I hate movies because they move so slow. I can usually reenter later and just fill in the blanks. That's a better way to watch. The conversation business is the same thing! Similar to lectures, it's more fun if it forces you to "keep up" rather than wait. Though, I always associated this with Se. "Yes, I was paying such close attention that I actually heard you the first time, keep going. Keep going, keep going, keep going. I need you to say something that will keep me stimulated and occupied."

    Quote Originally Posted by LunaLuminosity View Post
    Yeah, I'd say that actually gets pretty close to the definition. But good thing this is about the experiences because you are otherwise bound to get as many definitions as experiences anyway



    This is really interesting. I think I naturally read this way too. Before schoolage I taught myself to read just by kind of taking in everything and piecing together the meanings, and I'll still read in this sort of way now for more casual reading, like nonsequentially and focusing on key words, and reading a few times over. Then I get a "sense" of what the reading was about, from which I can decide if I need to read some of the parts more linearly to pick up on needed details. (Or just respond to it as is and risk being a little bit off in my response sometimes.... I'll catch myself doing this sometimes in retrospect.) The linear reading afterwards is for less casual stuff and it is something that I had to teach myself through my schooling.

    The real "problem" is, is that I listen to people nonlinearly too. I often lose a lot of the individual words that come at me and I compensate by this "filling in the blanks" Consequentially, I will often not answer the exact question that is being asked or otherwise respond in a way that is slightly off or connected to what was said but not the direct answer. The amount of misunderstandings and the "I'm not trying to be difficult, I forgot that your original question was..."




    Weird... I experienced things in this sort of sensory intuitive-energy overload more as a child but rarely nowadays, and I'm pretty sure I would go insane in a sensory deprivation chamber.... I need to be constantly taking in the patterns around me or else the rest of my mind takes a strike or does bad things to me.

    But I can relate to not naturally discerning each element in the environment. It is more of a sonar sort of experience but I'm not sure how else to describe it.


    But here I am, back to indirectly answering the question rather than simply telling what my experience is. I can say that part of the experience is having one's thoughts sort of flutter by as you want to respond to so many things, and needing a net to catch them in and only focus on some of the things, especially if it is late at night. So I'll continue answering this when I have found my net...
    The first paragraph. This is so true. This is starting to become my beef with trying to define people's personalities. This thread is actually a great example of that. It looks like a lot of these definitions of Ne that are coming out have actually been very like my definition of Se that I've been pushing here. Nobody is right or wrong. It's just that we're interpreting things based on our experiences.

    The reading thing... Are you guys talking about skimming? Or are you literally reading all over the place? I think I'm still going from left to right. Just extremely quickly and picking up key words. Like, I don't look at the whole paragraph and pick out a bunch of words. I start from left to right and just skim the lines in that way and then hope I got all the right info out of it.

    And the "sonar" thing- again, picking up on so many details is going to give you a good emotional/energy "read" on the environment. When you take in a lot of stuff at once, it's hard to know what's important and what's not important. For me, I think this kind of paralyzes me sometimes and deactivates and makes me look (or at least feel) scatter brained.
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  3. #53
    Senior Member Qre:us's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    Ne --> what if?
    Se--> what is?
    Yes, and due to this, I could miss what is, by immersing myself in'what if'. I miss the presence of the moment, in a way, for a wistful wandering of the mind into the realm of possibilities potent beyond the moment.

    they're both still testing what consequences could follow, both building stories all the time, but oriented differently. what is definiteness to an Ne user vs an Se user?
    For this, the faculty of Ti will indoubtedly influence. Definiteness is only brought forth by my Ti evaluation of whatever Ne brings to my mind's door. The "golden rule" often employed is Occam's razor. And, out of all the possibilities spurred by Ne, given the purpose at hand, only one is left standing as "most likely for X situation".

    do questions beget answers? (what is an answer to you, or what sits in the place of answers?)
    Questions beget answers and answers beget questions. What will come last? That could become a never-ending adventure. Just keep flipping the pages - it's an unending story.

    where are you in the 3d, virtual space you create?Se types are grounded in one location. where do you register? where is the information situated that you are exploring?
    Overview, the third perspective, seeing each location, and understanding each location, because, and only because, of its association with another location and another location, and so forth. In isolation, nothing can be defined. It always connects. The web. Many points of foci. Which one lights up, at what time, is triggered by the external trigger merging with my pre-existing internal database (Si).

    So, I don't know how to answer where the information is situated, specifically, at one particular point of reference.
    where is the information situated that you are exploring?
    It shifts faster than I have meta-cognition of it. Ne dominates me, I do not dominate it.

    how does it unfold in time?
    Concurrently, very rarely linearly and/or sequentially. It is spatial more than temporal. Whatever relating points of foci light up together, and the pathway that is illuminated between them, and how much space in my mind is thus dominated by that, compared with a competing model, determines what holds my prolonged interest over time.

    can you monitor multiple threads while still working more intensively on one?
    Yes. Because everything is connected, and there is always a thread of connect, if you look closely enough. So where one ends, and the other begins is an irrelevant question. It just matters what the parameters of "one" is, and trying to narrow or expand it, given the purpose of the moment at hand.

    you're an so/sx?
    I do not think I am so/sx, I am likely sx/sp, but I do not know enough about stackings to be conclusive.

    you feel like you can just be in a ton of different headspaces at the same time? to play so many games all at once?
    Outwardly, I may seem very contradictory in what I "want" (to do, say, be), but, in my head, there is no contradiction, only gaps. And I am constantly searching for the fillers, and my search is never over, because each gap filled can be magnified to a greater resolution, only to reveal, more and more tiny pores, yet to be filled. So it continues on.

    i'm not pulled forward by inquiry, i'm pulled forward by what is. and wanting to know what it is even more by supplying my own stored contexts and allowing them all to pull taut and reveal what is just a bit more transparently. i'm saying this, but i know i am missing the basic premises of your way of thinking in a fundamental way.
    I understand this, the bolded, your way of thinking. But, no, it is not me. Well, not completely, because I do cross-check with my own stored contexts (Si), but it is not so much about the final aim of transparency as it is about transfer.

    How can I understand X, from all angles, understand all its potential/possiblities, in order to efficiently be able to transfer it to another context, and still understand/predict how it can function? What it will do? How it will progress? That, to me, is my lightbulb, "aha" moment. Not when I can look through it, and be content that there are no mysteries left (internal commentary: what an awfully boring thing that would be. I doubt that can be achieved, as more information leads to more questions), but when I can grasp its essence so comprehensibly that I can see its possibility, not only in what it is, but in what it could be.......what if X was put in Y or Z, etc, if I can know how X will act, what trajectory it will follow, given a whole new, not-experienced-by-X-before context, I have understood X. I can predict how it can transfer from one moment to another. Foreign moments even.

    for you it's like you're pulled forward by what could be created, whereas for me what is doesn't fundamentally change but the understanding of it does. i'm still oriented towards stabilizing Se, i just focus on my own frames to grasp and supply infinite context to them. but you just have them all flowing, emanating out from themselves, and you focus that by working on a particular story at a time, using your sense of previous decision structures (Ti?) to orient the way you make leaps in the story?
    My leaps come when I am able to master how it can transfer. I can predict how it will act, so if [insert upcoming possible scenario] were to occur, I would know, what X will result in, given the systematic way Ti narrows down its mode of transfer, cross-checking with Si to make sure I'm learning from the past.

  4. #54
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    ^^ to comment on a bit of that. i totally agree that you can completely miss what is by automatically seeing what could be. my recollection of facts can be so off too because i'm not always sure if i filled in gaps or not....and the thing about that is i can't even be sure if there were legitimate gaps...example not totally related but just occurred to me...once when i was house shopping i saw this house that i fell in love with. everything would have to be gutted but it was perfect...someone else could see it and think...yuck...but no...in my head it was perfect because none of what is mattered..i already saw what it could be and it was fantastic and registered as truth or fact to me.
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  5. #55
    Senior Member INTPness's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    ^^ to comment on a bit of that. i totally agree that you can completely miss what is by automatically seeing what could be. my recollection of facts can be so off too because i'm not always sure if i filled in gaps or not....and the thing about that is i can't even be sure if there were legitimate gaps...example not totally related but just occurred to me...once when i was house shopping i saw this house that i fell in love with. everything would have to be gutted but it was perfect...someone else could see it and think...yuck...but no...in my head it was perfect because none of what is mattered..i already saw what it could be and it was fantastic and registered as truth or fact to me.
    Interesting. Do you usually consider other information in your decision making process also? Like, do you think, "I can see how awesome this house would be, but I know it will cost 100k more money to turn it into the vision I have, therefore, I can't afford to do it?" Or, does Ne just usually go, "Oh, I like it. I want it right now." And then realize the consequences later? How does that work?

    For me, my Ne is similar to what you describe (I see what it could be), but then Ti overrides it. Ti goes, "Yeah, it really could be an amazing house, but it would become a money pit. Therefore, shut up Ne, let's look for another house." Sometimes Ne wins the battle and gets its way. Like I remember once when I was younger looking for a new car. I could have spent 15k or closer to 30k for the nice, shiny piece of metal. Ne was like, "ooooh, shiny. And fast!" And Ti was like, "Yeah, and also 30k. Quit looking at it. Focus!" And then Ne was like, "Yeah, I wanna test drive that thing over there." Well, I got that car and I loved it. But, the whole 3 years that I had it, I knew I was overpaying relative to my income at the time. Ne: This car ROCKS! Ti: Yeah, cuz you aren't stuck paying the car note every month. I am. You idiot!
    NTJ's are the only types that have ever made me feel emo.
    ENP's are the only types that have ever made me feel like a sensor.


    There are two great days in a person's life - the day we are born and the day we discover why. --William Barclay

  6. #56
    mod love baby... Lady_X's Avatar
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    yeah no i do...i mean maybe that's where te comes in and organizes the thoughts and deems it doable or not...often because it's such the big picture idea it may undervalue all those details tho...like i think yes it can be done because this house is 60k below my budget and if i buy the materials at ikea and hire a contractor i should be able to do it with that....and this is because i've already priced things and i'm adding them up in my head..know what i mean?
    There can’t be any large-scale revolution until there’s a personal revolution, on an individual level. It’s got to happen inside first.
    -Jim Morrison

  7. #57
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    Yes, and due to this, I could miss what is, by immersing myself in'what if'. I miss the presence of the moment, in a way, for a wistful wandering of the mind into the realm of possibilities potent beyond the moment.

    For this, the faculty of Ti will indoubtedly influence. Definiteness is only brought forth by my Ti evaluation of whatever Ne brings to my mind's door. The "golden rule" often employed is Occam's razor. And, out of all the possibilities spurred by Ne, given the purpose at hand, only one is left standing as "most likely for X situation".

    Questions beget answers and answers beget questions. What will come last? That could become a never-ending adventure. Just keep flipping the pages - it's an unending story.

    Overview, the third perspective, seeing each location, and understanding each location, because, and only because, of its association with another location and another location, and so forth. In isolation, nothing can be defined. It always connects. The web. Many points of foci. Which one lights up, at what time, is triggered by the external trigger merging with my pre-existing internal database (Si).

    So, I don't know how to answer where the information is situated, specifically, at one particular point of reference.

    It shifts faster than I have meta-cognition of it. Ne dominates me, I do not dominate it.

    Concurrently, very rarely linearly and/or sequentially. It is spatial more than temporal. Whatever relating points of foci light up together, and the pathway that is illuminated between them, and how much space in my mind is thus dominated by that, compared with a competing model, determines what holds my prolonged interest over time.

    Yes. Because everything is connected, and there is always a thread of connect, if you look closely enough. So where one ends, and the other begins is an irrelevant question. It just matters what the parameters of "one" is, and trying to narrow or expand it, given the purpose of the moment at hand.

    I do not think I am so/sx, I am likely sx/sp, but I do not know enough about stackings to be conclusive.

    Outwardly, I may seem very contradictory in what I "want" (to do, say, be), but, in my head, there is no contradiction, only gaps. And I am constantly searching for the fillers, and my search is never over, because each gap filled can be magnified to a greater resolution, only to reveal, more and more tiny pores, yet to be filled. So it continues on.

    I understand this, the bolded, your way of thinking. But, no, it is not me. Well, not completely, because I do cross-check with my own stored contexts (Si), but it is not so much about the final aim of transparency as it is about transfer.

    How can I understand X, from all angles, understand all its potential/possiblities, in order to efficiently be able to transfer it to another context, and still understand/predict how it can function? What it will do? How it will progress? That, to me, is my lightbulb, "aha" moment. Not when I can look through it, and be content that there are no mysteries left (internal commentary: what an awfully boring thing that would be. I doubt that can be achieved, as more information leads to more questions), but when I can grasp its essence so comprehensibly that I can see its possibility, not only in what it is, but in what it could be.......what if X was put in Y or Z, etc, if I can know how X will act, what trajectory it will follow, given a whole new, not-experienced-by-X-before context, I have understood X. I can predict how it can transfer from one moment to another. Foreign moments even.

    My leaps come when I am able to master how it can transfer. I can predict how it will act, so if [insert upcoming possible scenario] were to occur, I would know, what X will result in, given the systematic way Ti narrows down its mode of transfer, cross-checking with Si to make sure I'm learning from the past.
    so the best i've got so far is that the similarity finder floods the space of the object with an influx of alternate informational domains. these supply other contexts. you call the contexts Si, and surely they are informed by semantic representations, but in my interactions and discussions with entps (enps more broadly, too, i'd think), it has seemed to me that the decision structures (Ji) supply the contexts. pragmatics instead of semantics. stories. little bits of simulated/tested extensionality gathered from semantic tags but also by other ways of recalling and reconstructing experience episodically (merleau-ponty's pre-objective?).

    your comment about parameters narrowing rather than a specific story line anchoring you to a single context rings so true for me. but how the fuck do you do this? how do you experience purpose (when Je is so purposeful in its singular, goal-oriented kind of way)? what governs parameters in exploration, how does one account for interest or relevancy? you still choose the decisions you want to combine into a larger story as you jump from alligator to alligator? there is a kind of subconscious interest based on what pictures can come into focus? like it's kind of happening, you can feel it or not, but when it does come into focus, then you can analyze it more completely and figure out how to get there? inkling, inkling, inkling, completion. analysis. repeat. like a path of connection lights up and lingers for a moment. but how long do they stay open and active? what becomes the larger whole? does each newly synthesized idea not make the creation of a whole more anchored to what has come before it? the motivation is whether it is worth it to keep going, keep exploring, or turn the page and start anew? (and ultimately, the quality of the story is what drives your exploration, tho for that quality to be measured and experienced by you fully you need to give it and get it back with interest, to see it as reflected back to you by others? via Fe?)

    so not an experience of time but of space. events. everything is connected because infinite stories connect all possibilities. and what, then, is information to you? everything is based on difference as a way of measuring change, but change is rooted in what? (when there is no IS and there is/is not an essence? pure sketch, always a process of creation, addition?) what does could be mean? how do those alternative contexts affect what something is or could be? just patterns that explode outward with their particular character and shape and symbol? to transpose endlessly... but how do they change then? like, you know the Ni joke, that tranpose to a new key, organizing principle + content replacement, jazz chord substitution, endlessly layered embedding of contexts into an ongoing recursive structure, seeing what's at the bottom of the well, well, we create the stretchiness between expectation and what is (which is the grounds of our symbols when grasped in as many of their possible contexts ordered by significance to prevent gravitational distortion), but with you it becomes that context or inhabits its possibilities but is not attached to the original in the same way??????? like, it just is this AND this AND this, and so all of those potentialities can be used in the same story, shifting definitions to skip steps and reach further into unknown realms? (and what is the essence that is carried through from beginning to end? is that something that must be analyzed via Ti to test the strength of each connection, to go back and build in the story to fill the gaps in the simplified story, to scale down from wider space to more narrowed parameter, driven by inquiry to test what can actually extend to... what, according to your best powers?)

  8. #58
    Senior Member sculpting's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    when i was younger i was sort of dyslexic and well actually i still am naturally...i just have learned to slow down and remember to read left to right one word at a time...all information comes in this way for me...not backwards but at the same time...like swirly bits of facts in my brain that get connected in no particular order. i wish i could show you with my hands the way i naturally read a sentence...it might be the 2nd word then the last then the 1st...but i think my brain scans for the most important keywords and puts them all together. like i'm in some race or something but so someone says something and that word gets connected to this word which connects to that idea and then that one and it's all swirly and then something complete gets spit out of my mouth in response. although...sometimes it doesn't sound complete because they were not aware of all those connections so it seems totally random and they have no idea why i didn't just answer the question and the fact is...i'm not trying to be difficult i just can't hear the question any other way.

    edit: actually that's not true. just like with dyslexia i can...i can try and remember to slow down and hear things one word at a time but it takes a lot of effort.
    ^^ I do this too! When I read, my mind eats whole sentences at once, often starting in the middle, then working towards keywords to resynthesize meaning, rather than read what was actually written.

    Ne is just seeing the obvious connections and patterns, LOL. Haha, I think they are obvious, but it is so very strange when other people cant see them. They are so blatant sometimes. When in doubt I find the entp, and cross check, but sometimes it is like we are sitting in a room and ghosts are floating by but other people just dont see them.

    NeFi is exploring the world, touching and exploring the feeling of people and problems and ideas to quite literally generate a kinesthetic response inside of me, based upon what I perceive. Very often the key crux of an issue "feels" like a lump. This isnt like values the way Fi is often used-this rather is an exploratory extension of myself into the world and then a reincorporation of the world as part of myself. The NeFi builds my soul/mind/ego as a replication of what it sees in the world.

    With NeTe I can take in massive amounts of super complex information, but distill out the essence, the simularities contained, and derive more fundamental underlying patterns. Those patterns are stored in my Si map of the world, become the backbone of my map so to speak. When I need to understand an issue in more depth, I revert back to NeFi to continue the groping process, but now days I tend start with these distilled patterns as a working point. They are often a very handy shortcut to take some of the workload off the never ceasing NeFi exploration.

    Ne seeks information and never wants to stop, as the goal is to complete the map. Once the map is complete, I will be connected to the world, the world with I, and everything will become one and be whole. It sounds self centric, but it is almost totally the opposite-there would be nothing more beautiful than to lose self identity and become part of everything, simply a grain of sand in the wind-but to do that the connections must be completed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    so the best i've got so far is that the similarity finder floods the space of the object with an influx of alternate informational domains. these supply other contexts. you call the contexts Si, and surely they are informed by semantic representations, but in my interactions and discussions with entps (enps more broadly, too, i'd think), it has seemed to me that the decision structures (Ji) supply the contexts.
    I don't know what you mean by contexts. Si supplies the raw material for Ne to alter and reconnect.

    Si: A proper table has four legs.

    Ne: Not twenty-seven.

    Si: Yes. And it may be constructed of wood, or metal, or plastic.

    Ne: But not parrots.

    Si: ^_^;;

    Pure Ne would produce constant, protean change, while pure Si would produce stasis.

  10. #60
    FRACTALICIOUS phobik's Avatar
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    Ne is a pattern seeker. One way I experience it is in noticing all the possible immediate relantionships between the perceived bits from the outside world I payed attention to, and then linking them to the existing mental structures, revising what is (external) to what could be (internal), originating "what if's".

    One practical example would be in school, as the teacher presents some topic and begins addressing said topic, as he provides new information, even if still incomplete to the actual topic, and while "waiting" for the next bits, the above process is already taking place to the incomplete data provided. And the process still continues, in parallel to the class topic, either at the moment or later on.
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