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  1. #41
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    That would be more in the domain of a judging function, not a function used for information-gathering.
    Looking for interconnections in how Ne is usually defined. I understand judging to relate more to how that process works, i.e., do you have an objective and stick to it, or do you just wander aimlessly?

  2. #42
    Senior Member the state i am in's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    "What if" > "What is"

    Imagine if the 'what if' never stood still, but just spun and spun and spun.

    What if....?

    But...Oh!....what if....?

    Nah, how about what if....?

    OR....what if....?

    It's like looking through a kaleidoscope. Patterns lead way to more and more patterns, patterns within patterns, shapes mixing into patterns, the more and more you turn it, this way and that. No linearity. Just angle of perception. And, it's all possible reality for consideration.

    What if what is, is not only what it is?

    Ti is the string to my Ne kite. Thankfully.
    Ne --> what if?
    Se--> what is?

    they're both still testing what consequences could follow, both building stories all the time, but oriented differently. what is definiteness to an Ne user vs an Se user? do questions beget answers? (what is an answer to you, or what sits in the place of answers?) where are you in the 3d, virtual space you create? Se types are grounded in one location. where do you register? where is the information situated that you are exploring? how does it unfold in time? can you monitor multiple threads while still working more intensively on one?

    my friend was telling me that it's like he's there but not all there when he talks to people. he's always branching away and exploring, and if he gets really excited, what seemed to be an sx focus, he'd be 100% invested, consumed by the possibilities in a more narrowly conscripted range. you're an so/sx? you feel like you can just be in a ton of different headspaces at the same time? to play so many games all at once?

    i have to actually verbalize the question for it to be anywhere. i'm still working with infinitely tagged patterns that i've already stored. they're not there outside of me, i'm always pulling them up, sectioning them off with Ti questions. but i think you're right. i'm not pulled forward by inquiry, i'm pulled forward by what is. and wanting to know what it is even more by supplying my own stored contexts and allowing them all to pull taut and reveal what is just a bit more transparently. i'm saying this, but i know i am missing the basic premises of your way of thinking in a fundamental way.

    for you it's like you're pulled forward by what could be created, whereas for me what is doesn't fundamentally change but the understanding of it does. i'm still oriented towards stabilizing Se, i just focus on my own frames to grasp and supply infinite context to them. but you just have them all flowing, emanating out from themselves, and you focus that by working on a particular story at a time, using your sense of previous decision structures (Ti?) to orient the way you make leaps in the story?

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    i just focus on my own frames to grasp and supply infinite context to them. but you just have them all flowing, emanating out from themselves, and you focus that by working on a particular story at a time, using your sense of previous decision structures (Ti?) to orient the way you make leaps in the story?
    I'll tell thee everything I can:
    There's little to relate.
    I saw an aged, aged man,
    A-sitting on a gate.

    "Who are you, aged man?" I said.
    "And how is it you live?"
    And his answer trickled through my head,
    Like water through a sieve.
    He said, "I look for butterflies
    That sleep among the wheat:
    I make them into mutton-pies,
    And sell them in the street.
    I sell them unto men," he said,
    "Who sail on stormy seas;
    And that's the way I get my bread--
    A trifle, if you please."

    But I was thinking of a plan
    To dye one's whiskers green,
    And always use so large a fan
    That it could not be seen.
    So having no reply to give
    To what the old man said,
    I cried, "Come, tell me how you live!"
    And thumped him on the head.

    His accents mild took up the tale;
    He said, "I go my ways,
    And when I find a mountain-rill,
    I set it in a blaze;
    And thence they make a stuff they call
    Rowland's Macassar Oil--
    Yet twopence-halfpenny is all
    They give me for my toil."

    But I was thinking of a way
    To feed oneself on batter,
    And so go on from day to day
    Getting a little fatter.
    I shook him well from side to side,
    Until his face was blue:
    "Come, tell me how you live," I cried,
    "And what it is you do!"

    He said, "I hunt for haddocks' eyes
    Among the heather bright,
    And work them into waistcoat-buttons
    In the silent night.
    And these I do not sell for gold
    Or coin of silvery shine,
    But for a copper halfpenny,
    And that will purchase nine.

    "I sometimes dig for buttered rolls,
    Or set limed twigs for crabs:
    I sometimes search the grassy knolls
    For wheels of Hansom-cabs.
    And that's the way" (he gave a wink)
    "By which I get my wealth--
    And very gladly will I drink
    Your Honour's noble health."

    I heard him then, for I had just
    Completed my design
    To keep the Menai bridge from rust
    By boiling it in wine.
    I thanked him much for telling me
    The way he got his wealth,
    But chiefly for his wish that he
    Might drink my noble health.

    And now, if e'er by chance I put
    My fingers into glue,
    Or madly squeeze a right-hand foot
    Into a left-hand shoe,
    Or if I drop upon my toe
    A very heavy weight,
    I weep, for it reminds me so
    Of that old man I used to know--
    Whose look was mild, whose speech was slow
    Whose hair was whiter than the snow,
    Whose face was very like a crow,
    With eyes, like cinders, all aglow,
    Who seemed distracted with his woe,
    Who rocked his body to and fro,
    And muttered mumblingly and low,
    As if his mouth were full of dough,
    Who snorted like a buffalo--
    That summer evening long ago,
    A-sitting on a gate.

  4. #44
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Yes, this is what it's like for me, too:

    Quote Originally Posted by Qre:us View Post
    "What if" > "What is"



    Imagine if the 'what if' never stood still, but just spun and spun and spun.

    What if....?

    But...Oh!....what if....?

    Nah, how about what if....?

    OR....what if....?

    It's like looking through a kaleidoscope. Patterns lead way to more and more patterns, patterns within patterns, shapes mixing into patterns, the more and more you turn it, this way and that. No linearity. Just angle of perception. And, it's all possible reality for consideration.

    What if what is, is not only what it is?

    Ti is the string to my Ne kite. Thankfully.
    When I'm trying to study or do something that requires a lot of focus , my imagination keeps going , so every 30 seconds I have to consciously remind myself .

    On the up-side, it can be very entertaining sometimes, I find a lot of things funny that others don't because I can see irony in a lot of things, and I love brainstorming.

  5. #45
    Senior Member redcheerio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    my friend was telling me that it's like he's there but not all there when he talks to people. he's always branching away and exploring, and if he gets really excited, what seemed to be an sx focus, he'd be 100% invested, consumed by the possibilities in a more narrowly conscripted range.
    I'm like this sometimes, too, usually in group convos. But luckily, I can exit and re-enter most conversations multiple times without having missed anything, or if I have missed something, I can pick up as if I hadn't missed anything. I get excited when I'm actually in a conversation that I have to pay attention to the whole time.

    Usually one-on-one, I'll pay attention, because I like to be a good friend and listen.


    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    for you it's like you're pulled forward by what could be created, whereas for me what is doesn't fundamentally change but the understanding of it does. i'm still oriented towards stabilizing Se, i just focus on my own frames to grasp and supply infinite context to them. but you just have them all flowing, emanating out from themselves, and you focus that by working on a particular story at a time, using your sense of previous decision structures (Ti?) to orient the way you make leaps in the story?
    When I'm learning something new, I think for me it's that Ne first provides the overall framework, and then Ti confirms and adjusts it for correctness, and fills in the details. But my fav use of Ne is to think of new things that I haven't heard of before, and so therefore that sometimes no one else has thought of before.

  6. #46
    Dreaming the life onemoretime's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by the state i am in View Post
    Ne --> what if?
    Se--> what is?

    they're both still testing what consequences could follow, both building stories all the time, but oriented differently. what is definiteness to an Ne user vs an Se user? do questions beget answers? (what is an answer to you, or what sits in the place of answers?) where are you in the 3d, virtual space you create? Se types are grounded in one location. where do you register? where is the information situated that you are exploring? how does it unfold in time? can you monitor multiple threads while still working more intensively on one?

    my friend was telling me that it's like he's there but not all there when he talks to people. he's always branching away and exploring, and if he gets really excited, what seemed to be an sx focus, he'd be 100% invested, consumed by the possibilities in a more narrowly conscripted range. you're an so/sx? you feel like you can just be in a ton of different headspaces at the same time? to play so many games all at once?

    i have to actually verbalize the question for it to be anywhere. i'm still working with infinitely tagged patterns that i've already stored. they're not there outside of me, i'm always pulling them up, sectioning them off with Ti questions. but i think you're right. i'm not pulled forward by inquiry, i'm pulled forward by what is. and wanting to know what it is even more by supplying my own stored contexts and allowing them all to pull taut and reveal what is just a bit more transparently. i'm saying this, but i know i am missing the basic premises of your way of thinking in a fundamental way.

    for you it's like you're pulled forward by what could be created, whereas for me what is doesn't fundamentally change but the understanding of it does. i'm still oriented towards stabilizing Se, i just focus on my own frames to grasp and supply infinite context to them. but you just have them all flowing, emanating out from themselves, and you focus that by working on a particular story at a time, using your sense of previous decision structures (Ti?) to orient the way you make leaps in the story?
    It's a little more simple than that. Ne doesn't regard the sensory information related to something as defining that thing's essence. Instead, it is a piece of evidence that hints at that thing's greater essence. It's a pervasive understanding that one's information is incomplete, and that more data is needed to comprehend something fully. When people talk about Ne and possibilities, they refer to Ne's tendency to fill in the gaps where things are unknown, recognizing that until there is definitive proof of that data point, no one can say for certain whether the filler material is right or wrong.

    Ne is to evidence as Se is to proof.

  7. #47
    Tier 1 Member LunaLuminosity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    simply an optimism, and interest in a wide variety of things, a sense of wonder. Kind of a scatterbrained thing.
    Yeah, I'd say that actually gets pretty close to the definition. But good thing this is about the experiences because you are otherwise bound to get as many definitions as experiences anyway

    Quote Originally Posted by Lady X View Post
    when i was younger i was sort of dyslexic and well actually i still am naturally...i just have learned to slow down and remember to read left to right one word at a time...all information comes in this way for me...not backwards but at the same time...like swirly bits of facts in my brain that get connected in no particular order. i wish i could show you with my hands the way i naturally read a sentence...it might be the 2nd word then the last then the 1st...but i think my brain scans for the most important keywords and puts them all together. like i'm in some race or something but so someone says something and that word gets connected to this word which connects to that idea and then that one and it's all swirly and then something complete gets spit out of my mouth in response. although...sometimes it doesn't sound complete because they were not aware of all those connections so it seems totally random and they have no idea why i didn't just answer the question and the fact is...i'm not trying to be difficult i just can't hear the question any other way.
    This is really interesting. I think I naturally read this way too. Before schoolage I taught myself to read just by kind of taking in everything and piecing together the meanings, and I'll still read in this sort of way now for more casual reading, like nonsequentially and focusing on key words, and reading a few times over. Then I get a "sense" of what the reading was about, from which I can decide if I need to read some of the parts more linearly to pick up on needed details. (Or just respond to it as is and risk being a little bit off in my response sometimes.... I'll catch myself doing this sometimes in retrospect.) The linear reading afterwards is for less casual stuff and it is something that I had to teach myself through my schooling.

    The real "problem" is, is that I listen to people nonlinearly too. I often lose a lot of the individual words that come at me and I compensate by this "filling in the blanks" Consequentially, I will often not answer the exact question that is being asked or otherwise respond in a way that is slightly off or connected to what was said but not the direct answer. The amount of misunderstandings and the "I'm not trying to be difficult, I forgot that your original question was..."


    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Sensory overload. Lots and lots of sensory overload.

    I think with Se I wouldn't be as overloaded and I would be able to discern all the elements in my environment. As a Ne dom, vibes and energies etc. hit me, it's more like having a kind of sonar than looking at things with just my eyes. If that makes sense.

    As an NE dom, the idea of being in a sensory deprivation chamber (they have some in the bay area) is extremely appealing.
    Weird... I experienced things in this sort of sensory intuitive-energy overload more as a child but rarely nowadays, and I'm pretty sure I would go insane in a sensory deprivation chamber.... I need to be constantly taking in the patterns around me or else the rest of my mind takes a strike or does bad things to me.

    But I can relate to not naturally discerning each element in the environment. It is more of a sonar sort of experience but I'm not sure how else to describe it.


    But here I am, back to indirectly answering the question rather than simply telling what my experience is. I can say that part of the experience is having one's thoughts sort of flutter by as you want to respond to so many things, and needing a net to catch them in and only focus on some of the things, especially if it is late at night. So I'll continue answering this when I have found my net...

  8. #48
    Senior Member alcea rosea's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CzeCze View Post
    Sensory overload. Lots and lots of sensory overload.

    I think with Se I wouldn't be as overloaded and I would be able to discern all the elements in my environment. As a Ne dom, vibes and energies etc. hit me, it's more like having a kind of sonar than looking at things with just my eyes. If that makes sense.

    My ENFP friend was diagnosed with ADHD. I think I had it as a kid and still have it, self medicated and doing meditation or whatnot can only help so much.

    As an NE dom, the idea of being in a sensory deprivation chamber (they have some in the bay area) is extremely appealing.
    I agree with CzeCze, total sesory overload + the brain is jumping from one subject to another quite wildly without stopping.....
    I also had similar experiences as a child.

  9. #49
    meinmeinmein! mmhmm's Avatar
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    i dig the the lack of boundaries. love and value the quality
    flow that manifests itself organically, and even more so in
    an interpersonal context.

    i have this addiction to see what can unfold and can become
    of things, of people--it's how my love for the world and life
    manifests itself--this fascination is the most constant thing
    i believe and trust in.

    i'm this sick eternal optimist, which no doubt blinds me at
    times, but even in that moment of blindness, i love that
    aspect too--blindseeing, perhaps. because there's still
    sooooo many things in the world that i don't even know
    if it exists or not, and i just can't wait to uncover and
    discover, to have my perspective shattered, shaken,
    beaten and expanded. the love i have for life and for
    myself are intertwined--just to be pulled out of line...
    and to be shown news things through different lenses...

    <3 oh my.
    every normal man must be tempted, at times,
    to spit on his hands, hoist the black flag,
    and begin slitting throats.
    h.l. mencken

  10. #50
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Wow, these are all good responses I am pre coffee though, and whatever is going to pop out of my mouth is not going to make any sense at the moment. I'll check back later
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

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