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  1. #21
    morose bourgeoisie
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    Is anything that is abstract, imaginary? Not in my estimation.
    Having said that, MBTI does not describe much that is real. Its dichotomies and explanations are vague and subjective, so it cannot be considered science. It's really a 20-century version of astrology, with all of the magical patina removed and replaced with pseudo-science. That’s not really surprising if we remember that Jung was really into the occult and read mediaeval texts on alchemy.
    Think about it. The sense that MBTI is somehow objective is tacitly believed by almost everyone on this message board. Why? Because most members are seeking some form of external validation. It’s really an attempt to be acceptable to the outside world. If it were actually descriptive, why would people constantly change their type? What does it matter to you, as an individual? Wouldn’t you take the same actions if your self-applied label was INFP or ESTJ? People confuse and blur the line between action and description with this stuff, and then behave as if the label they chose is internally meaningful.
    A scientific test would be rigorous and exhaustive, because science attempts to describe the real. You as the test taker, do not get to determine the outcome, because the results must be valid when judged using the scientific method.

  2. #22
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    MBTI is just a categorization system. Anything beyond that is based on intuitive leaps, anecdotal evidence, and untested hypotheses.

  3. #23
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dala View Post
    MBTI is just a categorization system. Anything beyond that is based on intuitive leaps, anecdotal evidence, and untested hypotheses.
    You made a nice intuitive leap to that judgement.
    Do you not need to be working with an untested hypotheses to determine that it's a categorization system in the first place?

  4. #24
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    Not sure what you mean. Simple descriptions don't require intuitive leaps or hypotheses.

  5. #25
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
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    No, but claiming that it is a real-world categorization system means that it's been tested and deemed true in an objective way. What you said carried the assumption that MBTI was legitimate, when it's legitimacy was just accepted by your intuition.
    MBTI is at best an untested hypothesis, so the only thing you would need to invalidate the implication that 'because it's untested, it's not legitimate' is the system itself.

  6. #26
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    Now who's making a leap? A categorization system is anything that groups people or things into categories based on characteristics. Libraries (used to) use the Dewey-Decimal system. I use a categorization system to sort the music on my computer (based on genre, then band name), and occasionally to decide in which order I will eat my Smarties (color).

  7. #27
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
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    Yes, but there are objective properties those things possess that you group them by.
    There are no objective facts about human nature, so the system itself is based on an untestable hypothesis.

  8. #28
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    MBTI is a naming convention for shorthand usage, much like the names of fruit. Most people use the term orange, for oranges but you can call them bananas if you want. The only problem with unconventional naming is that no one will understand what fruit you're talking about.

    I don't think anyone can truly dispute there are similar cognitive functions amongst the population. Whether these functions combine in a set manner to properly categorise 16 types, is a different matter. Going back to the fruit analogy, there are many species of oranges which include mandarins and tangerines but they all fall under the orange umbrella.

  9. #29
    Senior Member InTheFlesh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    MBTI is a naming convention for shorthand usage, much like the names of fruit. Most people use the term orange, for oranges but you can call them bananas if you want. The only problem with unconventional naming is that no one will understand what fruit you're talking about.

    I don't think anyone can truly dispute there are similar cognitive functions amongst the population. Whether these functions combine in a set manner to properly categorise 16 types, is a different matter. Going back to the fruit analogy, there are many species of oranges which include mandarins and tangerines but they all fall under the orange umbrella.
    I don't think this is something that can be proven.

  10. #30
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by InTheFlesh View Post
    I don't think this is something that can be proven.
    True, as it relates to scientific proof. But you must agree that there are observable similarities whether through net result behaviours (where process to behaviour isn't necessarily causal) or through discussions with other individuals of how they process.

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