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  1. #1
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    Default MBTI with more axis and higher resolution?

    I was pondering the possibility of sub-axis to the MBTI cognitive functions. In particular I have wondered about the Feeling function. I have struggled with determining if my Fi or Fe is stronger because I have certain aspects of both, and lack certain aspects of both. The following is a hypothesis which shows two axis instead of one. Such things could be applied to the other functions by separating the concept of "i" and "e" into the point of reference (the vantage point from which the system is viewed) and the location of the dynamic system, which may not have to be both internal or external. This idea could possibly be applied to the other functions, but this is the only one for which I have given any thought in applying the idea. I find myself clearly in one quadrant and wonder how this applies to others. What do you think of this hypothesis and/or have you come across other attempts at a higher resolution image of cognitive functions which create clear sub-axis of some sort?

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    Feeling

    Definition of terms (the italicized portions are from dictionary.com)

    Introversion = the state of being concerned primarily with one's own thoughts and feelings rather than with the external environment. The point of reference is inside self.

    Extroversion = the state of being concerned primarily with things outside the self, with the external environment rather than with one's own thoughts and feelings. The point of reference is outside self.

    Intrapersonal = Existing or occurring within the individual self or mind. These are the dynamics within the internal system of an individual.

    Interpersonal = pertaining to the relations between persons. These are the dynamics in the external systems of people.

    __________________________________________________ __________________________________
    Four Quadrants

    Introverted Intrapersonal
    An internal point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur within the self. This focus is on self-awareness.

    Introverted Interpersonal
    An internal point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between others and self. This focus is on harmony with others.

    Extroverted Intrapersonal
    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur within individuals outside the self. This focus is on individual empathy.

    Extroverted Interpersonal
    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between individuals outside of the self. This focus is on hosting, caretaking, and maintaining the community.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  2. #2
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    The following may need revision or to just be tossed. This is essentially a first draft but demonstrates a similar concept of two axis 1. Point of reference 2. Location of system. I was mostly curious if the previous concept was applicable to Thinking. I did invent a couple of words. ha. If the concept does not apply to Thinking, then there may not be justification for applying it to Feeling since the two exist on the same axis.

    __________________________________________________ _______________
    Thinking

    Definitions

    Introversion = the state of being concerned primarily with one's own thoughts and feelings rather than with the external environment. The point of reference is inside self.

    Extroversion = the state of being concerned primarily with things outside the self, with the external environment rather than with one's own thoughts and feelings. The point of reference is outside self.

    Intra-thought = Existing or occurring within the individual self or mind. These are the dynamics within the internal system of ideas and original thought.

    Inter-thought = pertaining to the relations between persons. These are the dynamics in the external systems of ideas and established thought.

    __________________________________________________ _______________
    Four Quadrants

    Introverted Intra-thought

    An internal point of reference concerned with the systems of ideas that occur within the self. This focus is on original thought from within self. This internal framework of reason is the point of reference for all thought.

    Introverted Inter-thought

    An internal point of reference concerned with the systems of thought that occur between original and external ideas. This focus is integrating new ideas into established concepts.

    Extroverted Intra-thought
    An external point of reference concerned with original ideas generated outside the self. This focus readily accepts and adapts to new systems of thought discovered outside self. It assumes an internal framework, but this may be constructed outside of self and still be readily grasped.

    Extroverted Inter-thought

    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between external systems of ideas. This focus is based on solidifying relationships between existing ideas.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  3. #3
    Senior Member aeon's Avatar
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    I like what you have presented here, toonia, and in it I see a parallel to Ken Wilber's four-quadrant model as part of his Integral Theory of Consciousness.


    cheers,
    Ian

  4. #4
    Highly Hollow Wandering's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Four Quadrants

    Introverted Intrapersonal
    An internal point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur within the self. This focus is on self-awareness.

    Introverted Interpersonal
    An internal point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between others and self. This focus is on harmony with others.

    Extroverted Intrapersonal
    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur within individuals outside the self. This focus is on individual empathy.

    Extroverted Interpersonal
    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between individuals outside of the self. This focus is on hosting, caretaking, and maintaining the community.
    I like it!

    I'm not sure I've properly digested it yet, but I can see myself as Introverted Interpersonal: my point of reference is within me, but my concern is about others.

    I can also see my ENFJ husband as Extroverted Intrapersonal, and I wonder if this is one reason he tends to see himself as Introverted? His focus tends to go inward, but his point of reference is clearly, in my eyes at least, external.

  5. #5
    Senior Member ThatsWhatHeSaid's Avatar
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    Cool. Can you elaborate on extraverted inter vs. intra thought?

  6. #6
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    Four Quadrants

    Introverted Intrapersonal
    An internal point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur within the self. This focus is on self-awareness.

    Introverted Interpersonal
    An internal point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between others and self. This focus is on harmony with others.

    Extroverted Intrapersonal
    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur within individuals outside the self. This focus is on individual empathy.

    Extroverted Interpersonal
    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between individuals outside of the self. This focus is on hosting, caretaking, and maintaining the community.
    I like these four quadrants quite a lot, and breaking it up in this manner applies well to me!! I think both my Introverted Intra- and Interpersonal are pretty high, and I'd say they tie. My Extroverted Intra- would be somewhat high as well, although I'm not sure. However, I think I have almost zero Extroverted Interpersonal, which would be why when I take cognitive function tests, or even mbti tests, I tend to score lower on Fe. It is also possibly why I would test as a 'T' when I was younger...because many of the online tests seem to hone in more on Extroverted Interpersonal feeling (based on your description) when determining ones' F-ness. ;-) Of the Thinking quadrants, I believe my Introverted Intra-thought would be highest, but that's a tossup w/ Introverted Inter-.
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  7. #7
    On a mission Usehername's Avatar
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    I like this idea.
    *You don't have a soul. You are a Soul. You have a body.
    *Faith is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.
    C.S. Lewis

  8. #8
    Feline Member kelric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toonia View Post
    I find myself clearly in one quadrant and wonder how this applies to others. _____________________________________________
    Four Quadrants

    Introverted Intrapersonal
    An internal point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur within the self. This focus is on self-awareness.

    Introverted Interpersonal
    An internal point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between others and self. This focus is on harmony with others.

    Extroverted Intrapersonal
    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur within individuals outside the self. This focus is on individual empathy.

    Extroverted Interpersonal
    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between individuals outside of the self. This focus is on hosting, caretaking, and maintaining the community.
    I like the distinctions that you've made, particularly for feeling - they seem valid, and as you said, I find myself falling predominantly in one category (Introverted Interpersonal), and I don't really identify with Introverted Intrapersonal or Extroverted Interpersonal at all (Extroverted Intrapersonal's sort of in between).

    I'm not as certain about the thinking subdivisions - Extroverted Intra in particular seems murky, but darned if I can find the words to explain why (big help I am). I suppose I've always identified Ti with internal logic and Te with "gettin' stuff done", so distinguishing them further seems more difficult. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that you're on the right track there too.

  9. #9
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    __________________________________________________ _______________
    Thinking

    Definitions

    Introversion = the state of being concerned primarily with one's own thoughts and feelings rather than with the external environment. The point of reference is inside self.

    Extroversion = the state of being concerned primarily with things outside the self, with the external environment rather than with one's own thoughts and feelings. The point of reference is outside self.

    Intra-thought = Existing or occurring within the individual self or mind. These are the dynamics within the internal system of ideas and original thought.

    Inter-thought = pertaining to the relations between concepts. These are the dynamics in the external systems of ideas and established thought.

    __________________________________________________ _______________
    Four Quadrants

    Introverted Intra-thought

    An internal point of reference concerned with the systems of ideas that occur within the self. This focus is on original thought from within self. This internal framework of reason is the point of reference for all thought. This process would produce highly original thought, but is the least connected to the outside world. Perhaps John Nash represents this thinking.

    Introverted Inter-thought

    An internal point of reference concerned with the systems of thought that occur between original and external ideas. This focus is integrating new ideas into established concepts. Perhaps Einstein demonstrates this.

    Extroverted Intra-thought
    An external point of reference concerned with original ideas generated outside the self. This focus readily accepts and adapts to new systems of thought discovered outside self. It assumes an internal framework, but this may be constructed outside of self and still be readily grasped. It seeks new and original relationships between external ideas. Perhaps Feynman is an example of this thinking.

    Extroverted Inter-thought

    An external point of reference concerned with the dynamics that occur between external systems of ideas. This focus is based on solidifying relationships between existing ideas. This would be an organizers and facilitator of ideas perhaps.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

  10. #10
    darkened dreams labyrinthine's Avatar
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    __________________________________________________ _______________
    Intuition

    Definitions

    Introversion = the state of being concerned primarily with one's own thoughts and feelings rather than with the external environment. The point of reference is inside self.

    Extroversion = the state of being concerned primarily with things outside the self, with the external environment rather than with one's own thoughts and feelings. The point of reference is outside self.

    Mono-Systems = The framework for integrating concepts is into a single system.

    Poly-Systems = The framework for integrating ideas is into multiple systems.

    __________________________________________________ _______________
    Four Quadrants

    Introverted Mono-System

    An internal point of reference concerned with organizing internalized concepts into a single system that encompasses all of reality. There is an underlying assumption of a singular point of reference.

    Introverted Poly-Systems

    An internal point of reference concerned with organizing internalized concepts into multiple hypothesized systems that encompasses all of reality. There is an underlying assumption of multiple plausible points of reference.

    Extroverted Mono-System
    An external point of reference concerned with organizing external concepts into a single system that encompasses all of reality. There is an underlying assumption of a singular point of reference.

    Extroverted Poly-Systems

    An external point of reference concerned with organizing externalized concepts into multiple hypothesized systems that encompasses all of reality. There is an underlying assumption of multiple plausible points of reference. This approach may be the most fluid of all.
    Step into my metaphysical room of mirrors.
    Fear of reality creates myopic morality
    So I guess it means there is trouble until the robins come
    (from Blue Velvet)

    I want to be just like my mother, even if she is bat-shit crazy.

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