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  1. #1
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Default Evidence Claimed for Type Dynamics

    There's a teaser announcement from someone who claims to have found real statistical evidence for type dynamics.

    Evidence for Dichotomies, Whole Types, and Type Dynamics

    Quote Originally Posted by Majors
    Leaving aside orientation and ranking, the number of different ways that eight items can be arranged is 40,320. If we go by pure guess, we have one chance in 40,320 of guessing right. We didn’t guess. We used the order that Jung presented and Myers called type dynamics. How did we do? Figure 1 shows the relative magnitude of the four dynamic processes for ENFJ. The other 15 types have exactly the same stair-step pattern. No borderline cases. No exceptions.


    Figure 1. Distribution of the Four Type Dynamic Processes for ENFJ

    We used the new Majors Jungian 8-Process Scores, derived from the MajorsPTI, to settle the question of type dynamics. The MajorsPTI shows the usual typological preferences, and, using complex regression and scoring methods, provides eight Jungian process scores.

    Following Jung’s theory and Myers elaboration, everything turned out as hypothesized: order, orientation, and relative magnitude of each of the type dynamics processes, indicating access, development, and utility. All 16 types matched all dynamic attributes. Jung and Myers made perfect predictions. It turns out that one graph shows all. If you’ve seen one, you’ve seen them all.
    Sadly, the teaser doesn't address the four other processes and where they fall. It's difficult to evaluate the claims made, especially since that it's using MajorsPTI (created by the author) and the results were arrived at via "complex regression and scoring methods."

    Still, dubiousness aside, it would be nice to get some empirical evidence for type dynamics ordering, etc. There really hasn't been much empirical evidence that type dynamics exist, much less that any particular ordering of the 8 functions is correct. The full results will be presented at the APT Conference in August.

    Also interesting to note they used the official MBTI function ordering (where the other 3 functions have the opposite orientation of the primary).

  2. #2
    nee andante bechimo's Avatar
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    Adding to this complexity, if the dominant is extraverted, then the other three, auxiliary, tertiary, and inferior, are introverted, and vice versa.
    Got this far into the article and went "WTF?".

  3. #3
    Vaguely Precise Seymour's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Got this far into the article and went "WTF?".
    That is the standard for the official MBTI model (even though having the tertiary oriented the same way as the primary is popular elsewhere), and it is what Jung implied (although there's only a sentence or two to that effect). Still, clearly that's one basic area of the type dynamic debates.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Got this far into the article and went "WTF?".
    This is correct by Jung and Meyers original definitions.

    It is often claimed that INTJs have 'Fi' infact, the ethics are worn on the sleaves, not shared as a communually, but extroverted in expression (as an example).

    By contrast INFJs rarely 'reveal' their ethics, even though they are often said to have 'Fe' which is often regarded as communual ethics.

    It is an issue of how you look at and approach the problem and it's one of the confusions of typology where the practitioners are often using different ways of describing the archetypes.

    In effect, a lot of people characterize the flavors of the archetypes based upon their own experience of their position on their psyche rather than considering the true orientation as described by Jung. It also goes aways to explaining the major imbalance on unofficial MBTI testing towards certain types.

    Interestingly the article has noted these very queries

    Quote Originally Posted by Article
    What about the last four processes? We don’t want to tell you everything all at once. That would not be near as much fun for you and for us. We’ll be at the next APTi in San Francisco, August, 2011.

    Which way does the tertiary go? Some people say it’s the same as the dominant. Jung said it’s opposite. Is the orientation of the dominant and auxiliary the same or opposite? Some Jungian analysts say same. Jung said opposite. We have evidence that will astonish. At least it continues to astonish us.
    I have more serious queries regarding how the test was done and the sample size however. The article is statistics light to satisfy my cynical mind.

  5. #5
    Reptilian Snuggletron's Avatar
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    It would be strange to think Se was terty for me...but then again I'm just as prone to conformation bias as anyone else. When I read what functions are in a type I could find a way to agree with them somehow.

    maybe I've misunderstood

  6. #6
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    I've always considered the tertiary to be very unique to the individual regardless of the function. The attitude almost seems moot in comparison to the individual feeling of the tert.

  7. #7
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jenaphor View Post
    Got this far into the article and went "WTF?".
    i went WTF on this:

    Jung focused on the first four of the eight processes. One is the favorite, the “dominant.” It does its best to run our individual show. Later a second process develops, the “auxiliary.” If the dominant is a perceiving process (S or N) the auxiliary is a judging process (T or F) and vice versa. Still later a third process gets tapped for action, the “tertiary.” It is the opposite of the auxiliary, and with the auxiliary ahead, the tertiary doesn’t get quite as much opportunity to develop. The least developed process is the opposite of the dominant, the “inferior.”
    jungs typology only focuses on dom, aux and inferior functions. there are references on using fourth function also(that could be translated as tert in some weird way), but the typology only has 3 functions.

    @Jenaphor what jung actually said was that if dom is E, aux and inferior is I and vice versa, he didnt mention tert function at all when talking about this.

    anyways im kinda bored of reading all these speculations from random people(especially from mbti experts, instead experts on analytical psychology, as mbti imo is way too stripped down version of jungs typology, so making some speculations from some stripped version of the real thing is just stupid), so cba to read the whole thing. maybe ill read it later if im bored enough.
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  8. #8
    ⒺⓉⒷ Eric B's Avatar
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    The ego sets up its structure, which includes the primary archetypes (hero/persona, parent, child, anima/inferior). The dominant function "differentiates" and falls into the dominant orientation, and becomes the ego's main achiever. The undifferentiated functions initially fall into the opposite orientation reach consciousness by way of the ego-structure, including the archetypes. So it's the child or "Puer/Puella" complex that orients the tertiary to the dominant attitude, as the first line of defense of the ego's goals.
    APS Profile: Inclusion: e/w=1/6 (Supine) |Control: e/w=7/3 (Choleric) |Affection: e/w=1/9 (Supine)
    Ti 54.3 | Ne 47.3 | Si 37.8 | Fe 17.7 | Te 22.5 | Ni 13.4 | Se 18.9 | Fi 27.9

    Temperament (APS) from scratch -- MBTI Type from scratch
    Type Ideas

  9. #9
    Senior Member INTP's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric B View Post
    The ego sets up its structure, which includes the primary archetypes (hero/persona, parent, child, anima/inferior).
    this is some speculation from what jung meant, not something that jung said. -> stupid to believe this to be true until something proved about it, or at least some reasoning explained
    "Where wisdom reigns, there is no conflict between thinking and feeling."
    — C.G. Jung

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  10. #10
    Occasional Member Evan's Avatar
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    who says "no exceptions" in a statistical survey? this seems pretty absurd.

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