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  1. #81
    Honor Thy Inferior Such Irony's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by strychnine View Post
    Your theory fits with my experience.
    I notice the same unawareness from S-types that are not familiar with MBTI. I think it's because there are more Ss than Ns in the world, so Ss have less incentive to speak N than Ns to do speak S.
    .
    I've noticed that too.
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  2. #82
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    I woke up this morning and for some reason I suddenly (think) I know what you guys are talking about (if only for a moment.) It’s stuff that you’ve been saying all along, but it’s rather hard to understand because it’s hard to put into words. The problem is not really “the sensors” so much as it is with the world. It’s almost as if you guys come from a different planet all together.

    It’s an English speaking planet, (I’ll use English because that’s what we’re using now.) But it’s a world of abstractions and possibilities. (Sounds obvious.) Speaking from a strictly N point of view, there is nothing physical in it. No physical bodies, no grass, no trees, no nothing. And then you’ve come into this planet, (Earth) of physical things and a physical body. Where 75 percent of people are native to the planet and can physically and mentally navigate with ease. And then you say something like, “Well sensors don’t understand us, they don’t speak our language.” And then we say, “Well yes we do, we’re all speaking English here.” “Well you don’t understand our level of abstraction.” And we say, “Yes we do, we talk about the meaning and abstractions behind things all the time, we all talk about the same stuff. Of course we understand your world.” .

    But, someone who starts their thought processes with concrete data would never be able to understand the world without physical things. We can understand abstractions and talk about meaning and possibilities, but would never be able to understand a world that has nothing physical in it, while N’s are forced to understand the world with physical things in it. It may be easier for some N’s if at least more people “understood” them. So, when many sensors walk around placing the importance on what you “do” in the physical world, a strong N may not be able to relate to it.

    I may be way far off, I’m not sure. (Also, really black and white terms of course.)
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

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  3. #83
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    As everyone probably knows, this website has been down for at least the past 12 or so hours. Now I have to go to work and can't post for the next several hours.

    I wanted to let everyone know that I'm planning on catching up with all the posts this evening. Thanks for the great comments and interesting feedback. I've learned so much already!
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  4. #84
    Professional Trickster Esoteric Wench's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    I woke up this morning and for some reason I suddenly (think) I know what you guys are talking about (if only for a moment.) It’s stuff that you’ve been saying all along, but it’s rather hard to understand because it’s hard to put into words. The problem is not really “the sensors” so much as it is with the world. It’s almost as if you guys come from a different planet all together.

    It’s an English speaking planet, (I’ll use English because that’s what we’re using now.) But it’s a world of abstractions and possibilities. (Sounds obvious.) Speaking from a strictly N point of view, there is nothing physical in it. No physical bodies, no grass, no trees, no nothing. And then you’ve come into this planet, (Earth) of physical things and a physical body. Where 75 percent of people are native to the planet and can physically and mentally navigate with ease. And then you say something like, “Well sensors don’t understand us, they don’t speak our language.” And then we say, “Well yes we do, we’re all speaking English here.” “Well you don’t understand our level of abstraction.” And we say, “Yes we do, we talk about the meaning and abstractions behind things all the time, we all talk about the same stuff. Of course we understand your world.” .

    But, someone who starts their thought processes with concrete data would never be able to understand the world without physical things. We can understand abstractions and talk about meaning and possibilities, but would never be able to understand a world that has nothing physical in it, while N’s are forced to understand the world with physical things in it. It may be easier for some N’s if at least more people “understood” them. So, when many sensors walk around placing the importance on what you “do” in the physical world, a strong N may not be able to relate to it.

    I may be way far off, I’m not sure. (Also, really black and white terms of course.)
    OK, I did have to post just this once before I go to work. I loved what you wrote here, Shortnsweet. I thought is was beautiful. And it made me feel so understood. I'll be smiling all day because of what you wrote here. My only comment would be that the line between Ns and Ss isn't quite so clear cut... just like the lines between the concrete world and the world of concepts and abstraction. However....

    +1000

    Thank you.
    ENFP with kick*ss Te | 7w8 so | ♀

  5. #85
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esoteric Wench View Post
    OK, I did have to post just this once before I go to work. I loved what you wrote here, Shortnsweet. I thought is was beautiful. And it made me feel so understood. I'll be smiling all day because of what you wrote here. My only comment would be that the line between Ns and Ss isn't quite so clear cut... just like the lines between the concrete world and the world of concepts and abstraction. However....

    +1000

    Thank you.
    I read it and thought it was great too. But also agree that a lot of these traits can be on more of a sliding scale (or maybe more acurately, a bell curve? Who knows), so blanket statements often don't apply -- either blanket statements made about types, or about dichotomies.

    For example, I find many of the S's on this site interesting, in that they do not reflect many of the S's I encounter irl. Both of my ISxJ parents scoff at mbti, and have no patience for any sort of winding theoretical discussions such as occur on this site. They're firmly in the 'real world', in the here and now, and reject (or smirk, lol) immediately any attempt to talk about personality theory.

    With counter examples: I have several N friends who have never been the foruming types.. they are too busy with their lives and jobs and just don't spend (waste? lol) much time on the net; however, they are very receptive and interested in having these sorts of conversations.

    So I think it's always important to remember that even this forum, and all its types, is rather a unique/specific demographic, that being a group of people who are specifically interested/'obsessed' with armchair personality theorizing, AND also forumers. And finally, in general it probably has a high % of people who are forumers *because* they have more problems interacting in the way they'd like in the real world. I'm certainly not excluded from that - it's why I started foruming years ago. I don't think it's necessarily representative of type trends - the full gamit, at least. (And I'm not directing this towards anyone in particular)

    To add to shortnsweet's post/theme, for me at least I have always felt I have had to somehow insert myself and my views into a world that doesn't necessarily apply to them. People on the opposite extreme I would imagine would start out with the world as-is, and merrily & naturally insert themselves into that, and from there build views based on the reality. For myself, it has been very learned.... this concept of recognizing and accepting the world as-is, and as a given. And admittedly, my having been able to incorporate this learning has made me much happier / more balanced too. But it is always again something I have to remind myself of; it's not a natural cognitive step.

    (And none of this is to say this isn't going to apply to some S's.)
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

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  6. #86
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadeco View Post
    I read it and thought it was great too. But also agree that a lot of these traits can be on more of a sliding scale (or maybe more acurately, a bell curve? Who knows), so blanket statements often don't apply -- either blanket statements made about types, or about dichotomies.

    For example, I find many of the S's on this site interesting, in that they do not reflect many of the S's I encounter irl. Both of my ISxJ parents scoff at mbti, and have no patience for any sort of winding theoretical discussions such as occur on this site. They're firmly in the 'real world', in the here and now, and reject (or smirk, lol) immediately any attempt to talk about personality theory.

    With counter examples: I have several N friends who have never been the foruming types.. they are too busy with their lives and jobs and just don't spend (waste? lol) much time on the net; however, they are very receptive and interested in having these sorts of conversations.

    So I think it's always important to remember that even this forum, and all its types, is rather a unique/specific demographic, that being a group of people who are specifically interested/'obsessed' with armchair personality theorizing, AND also forumers. I don't think it's necessarily representative of type trends - the full gamit, at least. (And I'm not directing this towards only S's - I mean, there have been several very unhealthy/unbalanced N's on this site as well. Oh no! The 'unhealthy' word being thrown around! )

    To add to shortnsweet's post/theme, for me at least I have always felt I have had to somehow insert myself and my views into a world that doesn't necessarily apply to them. People on the opposite extreme I would imagine would start out with the world as-is, and merrily & naturally insert themselves into that, and from there build views based on the reality. For myself, it has been very learned.... this concept of recognizing and accepting the world as-is, and as a given. And admittedly, my having been able to incorporate this learning has made me much happier / more balanced too. But it is always again something I have to remind myself of; it's not a natural cognitive step.

    (And none of this is to say this isn't going to apply to some S's.)
    Yes, of course my post is a generalization. There will always be plenty of exceptions. (That post may even be the exception, or only ring mildly true for N's who read it.) Thinking about it this way helps me a lot to understand the thought process of an N as compared to mine, though.
    And though I find that I can be a very abstract person at times, the comment that you made about not being able to accept the world as is first before moving forward with your thoughts is very foreign to me. The world is what it is first, and secondly, it is what it isn't. I guess this must be an essential difference and may make people who think, "the world is what's not there" feel out of place.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
    My Johari
    by sns.

  7. #87
    4x9 cascadeco's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Yes, of course my post is a generalization. There will always be plenty of exceptions. (That post may even be the exception, or only ring mildly true for N's who read it.) Thinking about it this way helps me a lot to understand the thought process of an N as compared to mine, though.
    And though I find that I can be a very abstract person at times, the comment that you made about not being able to accept the world as is first before moving forward with your thoughts is very foreign to me. The world is what it is first, and secondly, it is what it isn't. I guess this must be an essential difference and may make people who think, "the world is what's not there" feel out of place.
    Oh, to be clear I wasn't trying to say that your post was a generalization! I was adding all of that just because I don't want it to come across that S's won't be able to relate to certain things I say - as yeah, there will be a spectrum.

    And to the bolded -
    "...On and on and on and on he strode, far out over the sands, singing wildly to the sea, crying to greet the advent of the life that had cried to him." - James Joyce

    My Photography and Watercolor Fine Art Prints!!! Cascade Colors Fine Art Prints
    https://docs.google.com/uc?export=do...Gd5N3NZZE52QjQ

  8. #88
    Certified Sausage Smoker Elfboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shortnsweet View Post
    Yes, of course my post is a generalization. There will always be plenty of exceptions. (That post may even be the exception, or only ring mildly true for N's who read it.) Thinking about it this way helps me a lot to understand the thought process of an N as compared to mine, though.
    And though I find that I can be a very abstract person at times, the comment that you made about not being able to accept the world as is first before moving forward with your thoughts is very foreign to me. The world is what it is first, and secondly, it is what it isn't. I guess this must be an essential difference and may make people who think, "the world is what's not there" feel out of place.
    that also has to deal with belief systems. for instance, it's illogical to believe that one's mind is the only thing that's really real, when the mind survives only via what is tangible sources (food, water etc), grows throught tangible sources (mental stimulation such books, observation and conversation) and can be destroyed just as easily by an outside, tangible source. intuitives don't not pick up sensory data, which just don't consciously pick up sensory data or store sensory data. our natural process is to pick up the data, make the connections and discard the data while remembering the connections.
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  9. #89
    Senior Member King sns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elfboy View Post
    that also has to deal with belief systems. for instance, it's illogical to believe that one's mind is the only thing that's really real, when the mind survives only via what is tangible sources (food, water etc), grows throught tangible sources (mental stimulation such books, observation and conversation) and can be destroyed just as easily by an outside, tangible source. intuitives don't not pick up sensory data, which just don't consciously pick up sensory data or store sensory data. our natural process is to pick up the data, make the connections and discard the data while remembering the connections.
    Aww, I was going to go off into my propoganda about how N's don't really exist at all, and if you are here, typing on a keyboard and responding to what I said, you aren't really N. So we're all S's. You just destroyed that idea.
    06/13 10:51:03 five sounds: you!!!
    06/13 10:51:08 shortnsweet: no you!!
    06/13 10:51:12 shortnsweet: go do your things and my things too!
    06/13 10:51:23 five sounds: oh hell naw
    06/13 10:51:55 shortnsweet: !!!!
    06/13 10:51:57 shortnsweet: (cries)
    06/13 10:52:19 RiftsWRX: You two are like furbies stuck in a shoe box

    My Nohari
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    by sns.

  10. #90
    i love skylights's Avatar
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    ^

    i like your posts, shortnsweet. i think it makes sense. especially in terms of seeing the world in abstractions first and then in realities. i think of the world in big sweeping principles and patterns and connections and holistic atmospheres and meanings and intangibilities first, and then i think about its more concrete components. sometimes to understand, i have to redux to theory. it's not that i'm not here, i feel the ground pressing into my belly (yes i lay on the floor with my laptop lol) and see the things around me and remember facts and details, but i tend to see my N stuff as the "ultimate" reality. it seems like the theoretical structure is what the concrete components fit into, not vice versa.

    also can i please point out the irony that the S has accommodated her own worldview to see from the N point of view while i have not yet seen that from an N

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